Top Law Schools

I heard this rumor. It cannot be true can it?

If so, a big "we told you so." IUB is the redheaded stepchild of "top" schools.

That can't be possible. Honestly, it just can't. That would almost certainly mean they placed worse than IU-I.

I already see a couple in the 2012 summer class size thread and fewer than 10 firms have been listed (most in NYC—none in Indianapolis/lower midwest), so it has to be more than 4

f0bolous wrote:I already see a couple in the 2012 summer class size thread and fewer than 10 firms have been listed (most in NYC—none in Indianapolis/lower midwest), so it has to be more than 4

Probably not many more though. I don't see IUB on the NLJ250 report for school placement, meaning they place under 10% at NLJ250 firms. With a class size around 180-200, this means almost certainly fewer than 20 SAs.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

f0bolous wrote:I already see a couple in the 2012 summer class size thread and fewer than 10 firms have been listed (most in NYC—none in Indianapolis/lower midwest), so it has to be more than 4

Probably not many more though. I don't see IUB on the NLJ250 report for school placement, meaning they place under 10% at NLJ250 firms. With a class size around 180-200, this means almost certainly fewer than 20 SAs.

NLJ250 is not the be all, end all of biglaw firms.

BeenDidThat wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:

f0bolous wrote:I already see a couple in the 2012 summer class size thread and fewer than 10 firms have been listed (most in NYC—none in Indianapolis/lower midwest), so it has to be more than 4

Probably not many more though. I don't see IUB on the NLJ250 report for school placement, meaning they place under 10% at NLJ250 firms. With a class size around 180-200, this means almost certainly fewer than 20 SAs.

NLJ250 is not the be all, end all of biglaw firms.

Given that it's the top 250 law firms by size, and it goes all the way down to firms with merely 150 attorneys, I'd say it is...

There are a number of NLJ250 firms that start at less than 160 or market if they're based in a non-primary market, while there are very very few firms outside the NLJ250 that do start at that level (maybe Susman?) That makes the NLJ an almost perfect proxy for measuring Biglaw outcomes when Biglaw is defined at near 160 or market.

LawIdiot86 wrote:There are a number of NLJ250 firms that start at less than 160 or market if they're based in a non-primary market, while there are very very few firms outside the NLJ250 that do start at that level (maybe Susman?) That makes the NLJ an almost perfect proxy for measuring Biglaw outcomes when Biglaw is defined at near 160 or market.

You can also just define biglaw by size, as it should be. When you actually look at the NLJ250, biglaw doesn't end at the 250th firm and midlaw doesn't begin at the 251st firm. The boundary is probably a lot lower than that. If anything the NLJ250 is over-inclusive as opposed to under.

Fresh Prince wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:There are a number of NLJ250 firms that start at less than 160 or market if they're based in a non-primary market, while there are very very few firms outside the NLJ250 that do start at that level (maybe Susman?) That makes the NLJ an almost perfect proxy for measuring Biglaw outcomes when Biglaw is defined at near 160 or market.

You can also just define biglaw by size, as it should be. When you actually look at the NLJ250, biglaw doesn't end at the 250th firm and midlaw doesn't begin at the 251st firm. The boundary is probably a lot lower than that. If anything the NLJ250 is over-inclusive as opposed to under.

but when people generally refer to "biglaw," it's more as a catch-all term for a "decent" market or near-market paying salary. at least in TX, there are a decent number of mid-size, firms with summer programs that don't make it on nlj250 but do pay over 100K for first years (e.g., Porter Hedges, Carrington Coleman, etc). not sure if the same is applicable to IU though...

I can verify for a fact that the 4 SA figure is totally wrong. Off the top of my head, I know that there's at least this lineup so far:

2 Mayer Brown - Chicago
1 Sidley Austin - Dallas
3 Chapman & Cutler - Chicago
1 Latham & Watkins - Chicago
5 Faegre Baker Daniels - Indianapolis
1 Kirkland & Ellis - Chicago
>1 Barnes & Thornburg - Indianapolis
1 Ice Miller - Indianapolis

I'm sure there are more going elsewhere, but that's all I could come up with quickly at the moment.

thisbigolclub wrote:I can verify for a fact that the 4 SA figure is totally wrong. Off the top of my head, I know that there's at least this lineup so far:

2 Mayer Brown - Chicago
1 Sidley Austin - Dallas
3 Chapman & Cutler - Chicago
1 Latham & Watkins - Chicago
5 Faegre Baker Daniels - Indianapolis
1 Kirkland & Ellis - Chicago
>1 Barnes & Thornburg - Indianapolis
1 Ice Miller - Indianapolis

I'm sure there are more going elsewhere, but that's all I could come up with quickly at the moment.

wow that s a lot from IU at Chapman. How many summer associates are they taking total?

Maybe the rumor was referring to a particular law firm or to the 1L class.

CanadianWolf wrote:Maybe the rumor was referring to a particular law firm or to the 1L class.

I talked to teh person again, and they said 4 out of OCI, but that more got stuff from outside OCI. I still don't believe it. Said Jones Day was the best firm to come adn they took nobody.

BeenDidThat wrote:NLJ250 is not the be all, end all of biglaw firms.

Yes it pretty much is.

Desert Fox wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:Maybe the rumor was referring to a particular law firm or to the 1L class.

I talked to teh person again, and they said 4 out of OCI, but that more got stuff from outside OCI. I still don't believe it. Said Jones Day was the best firm to come adn they took nobody.

I'm not buying. I would guess that the "big four" (Ice, Barnes, Baker, and Taft) all have at least one IUB SA.

romothesavior wrote:

BeenDidThat wrote:NLJ250 is not the be all, end all of biglaw firms.

Yes it pretty much is.

Eh I agree that lots of firms on there are really midlaw. V100 is probably a closer guess, but really, the best way to judge is $$$. Either you're making biglaw money, or you're not.

IAFG wrote:

romothesavior wrote:

BeenDidThat wrote:NLJ250 is not the be all, end all of biglaw firms.

Yes it pretty much is.

Eh I agree that lots of firms on there are really midlaw. V100 is probably a closer guess, but really, the best way to judge is $$$. Either you're making biglaw money, or you're not.

I had zero interest in the V100 firms in big markets, so I am personally inclined to call secondary market firms "biglaw" while still acknowledging there is a distinction between my firm and a Vault firm. It's a raging TLS debate that will never be resolved, like Nova v. Barry, so let's not let this devolve into a debate into what is and is not biglaw.

All I said was that NLJ 250 encompasses pretty much all biglaw firms, not that all NLJ 250 firms are biglaw.

All I said was that NLJ 250 encompasses pretty much all biglaw firms, not that all NLJ 250 firms are biglaw.

Yep.

romothesavior wrote:

IAFG wrote:

romothesavior wrote:

BeenDidThat wrote:NLJ250 is not the be all, end all of biglaw firms.

Yes it pretty much is.

Eh I agree that lots of firms on there are really midlaw. V100 is probably a closer guess, but really, the best way to judge is $$$. Either you're making biglaw money, or you're not.

I had zero interest in the V100 firms in big markets, so I am personally inclined to call secondary market firms "biglaw" while still acknowledging there is a distinction between my firm and a Vault firm. It's a raging TLS debate that will never be resolved, like Nova v. Barry, so let's not let this devolve into a debate into what is and is not biglaw.

All I said was that NLJ 250 encompasses pretty much all biglaw firms, not that all NLJ 250 firms are biglaw.

You didn't say that, but you have now, and that seems like a reasonable definition, but it's also a meaningless line to draw.

Wow, does IUB just place way better in Chicago than Minnesota? I can only think of one person going to Chicago from Minn.

BeenDidThat wrote:

LawIdiot86 wrote:

f0bolous wrote:I already see a couple in the 2012 summer class size thread and fewer than 10 firms have been listed (most in NYC—none in Indianapolis/lower midwest), so it has to be more than 4

Probably not many more though. I don't see IUB on the NLJ250 report for school placement, meaning they place under 10% at NLJ250 firms. With a class size around 180-200, this means almost certainly fewer than 20 SAs.

NLJ250 is not the be all, end all of biglaw firms.

actually it is.

thisbigolclub wrote:I can verify for a fact that the 4 SA figure is totally wrong. Off the top of my head, I know that there's at least this lineup so far:

2 Mayer Brown - Chicago
1 Sidley Austin - Dallas
3 Chapman & Cutler - Chicago
1 Latham & Watkins - Chicago
5 Faegre Baker Daniels - Indianapolis
1 Kirkland & Ellis - Chicago
>1 Barnes & Thornburg - Indianapolis
1 Ice Miller - Indianapolis

I'm sure there are more going elsewhere, but that's all I could come up with quickly at the moment.

There's one at Taft.

Oh DF, you are such a master troller. Sometimes I'm convinced d2 is your alt.

either way this thread ends, it's helpful to remember that there are 250 2Ls...thus far the high estimate is that 20 of them have SAs