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Is there any empirical data out there on the GPA required for DOJ Honors? I'm specifically wondering about Civil Division, if that matters.

That information is classified.

Anonymous User wrote:That information is classified.

I don't have specific numbers but DOJ Honors is harder to get any old biglaw job. There are significantly fewer spots.

For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

This, and I would think it depends on the school and what the biglaw cutoff is. If you go to a T3 school where you need top 2% to get biglaw, that will probably put you in the running for Honors. On the other hand, if you go to CCN, someone at the rock bottom of the class can theoretically land biglaw (granted with extreme difficulty), but that person wouldn't have a shot in hell at honors.

mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

I understand. I suppose my question is this: what level of grades are sufficient? Good enough for V5? V20? Do we know at all?

sundance95 wrote:

mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

I understand. I suppose my question is this: what level of grades are sufficient? Good enough for V5? V20? Do we know at all?

It's really impossible to say. There are effectively 30 AG Honors spots (not counting immigration) and ~4,000-8,000 applicants. Those are absurd odds compared to Biglaw and remember that AG hires into very specific groups. I imagine there are V20-capable people turned away from antitrust, civil and national security on a very regular basis given the tiny number of openings relative to the number of highly capable people applying.

For reference, I have a V50 capable friend at a T14 with a degree in econ and internships at the FTC and DOJ who has worked for economics consultants as a researcher and he wasn't given an interview.

LawIdiot86 wrote:

sundance95 wrote:

mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

I understand. I suppose my question is this: what level of grades are sufficient? Good enough for V5? V20? Do we know at all?

It's really impossible to say. There are effectively 30 AG Honors spots (not counting immigration) and ~4,000-8,000 applicants. Those are absurd odds compared to Biglaw and remember that AG hires into very specific groups. I imagine there are V20-capable people turned away from antitrust, civil and national security on a very regular basis given the tiny number of openings relative to the number of highly capable people applying.

For reference, I have a V50 capable friend at a T14 with a degree in econ and internships at the FTC and DOJ who has worked for economics consultants as a researcher and he wasn't given an interview.

TYVM, just what I was looking for.

sundance95 wrote:

mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

I understand. I suppose my question is this: what level of grades are sufficient? Good enough for V5? V20? Do we know at all?

As someone implied above, it's more about your ranking in your class than about your ability to get a job at particular Vault level. There is a New York Times article that indicated the average US News and World Report ranking for the law schools of Honors Program admits was around 30. Since DOJ is obviously hiring people at schools ranked 1-10, they are also hiring from schools that are below the 30 mark. Students at schools ranked 50-60 who are Top 5% don't have a great chance at top Vault firms, but probably have the grades needed for the Honors Program. Contrarily, someone at at Harvard ranked in the Top 20% probably have an okay shot a high Vault firms, but will likely get passed over for the Honors Program.

^Thanks. Dig the XYZ screen name, btw.

To give you a picture of who does get hired, one of the more selective divisions (e.g., fed programs, civil appellate, civil rights) hired the #2 student from MVPB. The student had LR, board, DOJ internships, publications, great resume, and a feeder clerkship.

Anonymous User wrote:To give you a picture of who does get hired, one of the more selective divisions (e.g., fed programs2, civil appellate, civil rights) hired the #2 student from MVPB. The student had LR, board, DOJ internships, publications, great resume, and a feeder clerkship.

What kind of doj internships and publications?
Also did this person clerk and then apply for Honors? I wouldn't be surprised to hear that most or all of their slots go to finished clerks and SLIP interns.

I want more about the ecOn law review doj guy that didn't make it. Sounds depressing and applicable.

Thoughts and knowledge welcome here.

DOJ Honors is insanely competitive. At my T14, top quarter will get you a V25, maybe V10 but doesn't guarantee you even an interview at DOJ. The thing is that so few spots are available you can have killer grades and you still probably won't get it.

Fed Gov hiring also is much more agnostic to your law school; being at the T14 gives you a HUGE advantage relative to most other schools in big law hiring but a much more modest bump for the federales.

Also the budget situation means there are like 3 open fed positions for ever 10,000 or so applicants. Good luck!