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Just wrapping up 1st semester at Michigan.

White dude; nothing special; 2 years paralegal work

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at big law?

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at secondary-market mid-law?

(p.s. just looking for broad-stroke approximations)

Go ask your CSO for the list that shows average GPA for CBs and offers. Then take it with a grain of salt.

Anonymous User wrote:Just wrapping up 1st semester at Michigan.

White dude; nothing special; 2 years paralegal work

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at big law?

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at secondary-market mid-law?

(p.s. just looking for broad-stroke approximations)

Top third and better gives you a good shot.

Bottom third or better gives you reasonable shot. There probably aren't grades low enough that will totally sink your chances (Within reason, I'm sure 1.5 will fuck you). People in the bottom 10% will get jobs, people in the top third won't.

This goes from the entire lower t13.

Desert Fox wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just wrapping up 1st semester at Michigan.

White dude; nothing special; 2 years paralegal work

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at big law?

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at secondary-market mid-law?

(p.s. just looking for broad-stroke approximations)

Top third and better gives you a good shot.

Bottom third or better gives you reasonable shot. There probably aren't grades low enough that will totally sink your chances (Within reason, I'm sure 1.5 will fuck you). People in the bottom 10% will get jobs, people in the top third won't.

This goes from the entire lower t13.

I hope I am not the only person slightly confused by this?

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just wrapping up 1st semester at Michigan.

White dude; nothing special; 2 years paralegal work

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at big law?

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at secondary-market mid-law?

(p.s. just looking for broad-stroke approximations)

Top third and better gives you a good shot.

Bottom third or better gives you reasonable shot. There probably aren't grades low enough that will totally sink your chances (Within reason, I'm sure 1.5 will fuck you). People in the bottom 10% will get jobs, people in the top third won't.

This goes from the entire lower t13.

I hope I am not the only person slightly confused by this?

I think the point is that some people that, based on grades, shouldn't get jobs will, and some people that, based on grades, should get jobs won't. That is, more than just grades matter.

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just wrapping up 1st semester at Michigan.

White dude; nothing special; 2 years paralegal work

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at big law?

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at secondary-market mid-law?

(p.s. just looking for broad-stroke approximations)

Top third and better gives you a good shot.

Bottom third or better gives you reasonable shot. There probably aren't grades low enough that will totally sink your chances (Within reason, I'm sure 1.5 will fuck you). People in the bottom 10% will get jobs, people in the top third won't.

This goes from the entire lower t13.

I hope I am not the only person slightly confused by this?

He's saying that there's little correlation (a low r^2 value, if you will) between grades an job-getting.

I dunno one way or the other, but I will say that in the past when Michigan has institutionally tanked in job placement, it's been due to poor bidding by its students (brought on by poor bidding advice from CSO). So, uh, bid wisely.

ScrabbleChamp wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just wrapping up 1st semester at Michigan.

White dude; nothing special; 2 years paralegal work

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at big law?

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at secondary-market mid-law?

(p.s. just looking for broad-stroke approximations)

Top third and better gives you a good shot.

Bottom third or better gives you reasonable shot. There probably aren't grades low enough that will totally sink your chances (Within reason, I'm sure 1.5 will fuck you). People in the bottom 10% will get jobs, people in the top third won't.

This goes from the entire lower t13.

I hope I am not the only person slightly confused by this?

I think the point is that some people that, based on grades, shouldn't get jobs will, and some people that, based on grades, should get jobs won't. That is, more than just grades matter.

Got it, just making sure I wasnt reading it wrong.

OP: the two years working in a firm, although not unique, will definitely help you.

also you always have next semester to raise your grades (although i suppose you always have next semester to mess up your good grades, too...could cut either way)

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just wrapping up 1st semester at Michigan.

White dude; nothing special; 2 years paralegal work

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at big law?

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at secondary-market mid-law?

(p.s. just looking for broad-stroke approximations)

Top third and better gives you a good shot.

Bottom third or better gives you reasonable shot. There probably aren't grades low enough that will totally sink your chances (Within reason, I'm sure 1.5 will fuck you). People in the bottom 10% will get jobs, people in the top third won't.

This goes from the entire lower t13.

I hope I am not the only person slightly confused by this?

Grades aren't the only thing that is important. Some people with poor personal skills or with some bad luck will strike out in the top third. People in the bottom third might have good personal skills and a good resume and they will do alright.

There really isn't a cut off where people go from getting jobs to not getting jobs. Top 10% seems to be aspergers proof. And below bottom third you really need something special to get over the grades hump.

seriously, who can't pretend to be nice or have a great personality at an interview?

If you easily get nervous and do not present yourself well, that will be an issue - but this has less to do with personality, and more to do with whether you are a great salesman.

Anonymous User wrote:seriously, who can't pretend to be nice or have a great personality at an interview?

you must be new here

Anonymous User wrote:seriously, who can't pretend to be nice or have a great personality at an interview?

If you easily get nervous and do not present yourself well, that will be an issue - but this has less to do with personality, and more to do with whether you are a great salesman.

It is as if you do not know of the type of people that attend law school...

I think most people can make an effort to act nice/chatty/personable.
I am driven but introverted (nice, but shy and cold) but I've been able to convince people whom I just met that I was the leader type when I made a conscious effort.

edit:
if you have anxiety attacks that would be another issue. It does not really reflect on your 'bad' personality but on your ability to control your anxiety.

Desert Fox wrote:
Grades aren't the only thing that is important. Some people with poor personal skills or with some bad luck will strike out in the top third. People in the bottom third might have good personal skills and a good resume and they will do alright.

There really isn't a cut off where people go from getting jobs to not getting jobs. Top 10% seems to be aspergers proof. And below bottom third you really need something special to get over the grades hump.

Except for top 10% + LR guy who struck out anyway.

flcath wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just wrapping up 1st semester at Michigan.

White dude; nothing special; 2 years paralegal work

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at big law?

What will I need to rank to have a reasonable shot at secondary-market mid-law?

(p.s. just looking for broad-stroke approximations)

Top third and better gives you a good shot.

Bottom third or better gives you reasonable shot. There probably aren't grades low enough that will totally sink your chances (Within reason, I'm sure 1.5 will fuck you). People in the bottom 10% will get jobs, people in the top third won't.

This goes from the entire lower t13.

I hope I am not the only person slightly confused by this?

He's saying that there's little correlation (a low r^2 value, if you will) between grades an job-getting.

I dunno one way or the other, but I will say that in the past when Michigan has institutionally tanked in job placement, it's been due to poor bidding by its students (brought on by poor bidding advice from CSO). So, uh, bid wisely.

R^2 is not used to measure correlation. It is used to measure goodness-of-fit. A model that includes a dependent variable highly correlated with the independent variable(s) could (and often does) have a low R^2. This is because the model omits relevant variables that influence the dependent variable. But that does not imply that the dependent variable (job placement success) is not strongly correlated with the independent variable(s) (GPA) being used. A low R^2 only implies that job placement success is not explained predominantly by GPA. I believe this is what you meant flcath. But a low R^2 does not equate to little correlation.

Anonymous User wrote: R^2 is not used to measure correlation. It is used to measure goodness-of-fit. A model that includes a dependent variable highly correlated with the independent variable(s) could (and often does) have a low R^2. This is because the model omits relevant variables that influence the dependent variable. But that does not imply that the dependent variable (job placement success) is not strongly correlated with the independent variable(s) (GPA) being used. A low R^2 only implies that job placement success is not explained predominantly by GPA. I believe this is what you meant flcath. But a low R^2 does not equate to little correlation.

...I think you need to be aiming for:

Desert Fox wrote:Top 10% seems to be aspergers proof.

My second semester raised my GPA by .3. Don't freak too much about the first semester. Anywhere above median is a pretty solid chance. Below median many still have BigLaw that want it. The lower you go, the more secondary the market you're looking at. (I'm a 2L at Michigan.)

Just be smart with your bidding. Median and no ties shouldnt be shooting for DC, etc.