Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through? Forum
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Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
I told myself I would not apply for 1L summer jobs just before my exam, but tonight I'm suddenly reading about how it gets exponentially harder when you wait till after finals so...cover lettering time! I'm applying to midlaw and small-law right now, trying to be realistic here, and just realized that I have no idea why I'm interested in litigation, apart from the fact that the hours are slightly better and corporate law sounds goddawful.
Please indulge me for 5 minutes and give me a quick check list for litigation pros/cons and, if you're a corporate attorney, the same for corporate law. I want to hammer out these letters, go back to studying for finals until 1 AM, and then have some coffee and edit the cover letters.
Thanks, and cookies all around.
Please indulge me for 5 minutes and give me a quick check list for litigation pros/cons and, if you're a corporate attorney, the same for corporate law. I want to hammer out these letters, go back to studying for finals until 1 AM, and then have some coffee and edit the cover letters.
Thanks, and cookies all around.
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Do you want to make messes or do you want to clean them up?
- ph14
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Your welcome: http://www.chambers-associate.com/Pract ... -SummariesPeg wrote:I told myself I would not apply for 1L summer jobs just before my exam, but tonight I'm suddenly reading about how it gets exponentially harder when you wait till after finals so...cover lettering time! I'm applying to midlaw and small-law right now, trying to be realistic here, and just realized that I have no idea why I'm interested in litigation, apart from the fact that the hours are slightly better and corporate law sounds goddawful.
Please indulge me for 5 minutes and give me a quick check list for litigation pros/cons and, if you're a corporate attorney, the same for corporate law. I want to hammer out these letters, go back to studying for finals until 1 AM, and then have some coffee and edit the cover letters.
Thanks, and cookies all around.
- patrickd139
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
I was thinking fighter-pilots v. cargo pilots, but that analogy works, too.Transferthrowaway wrote:Do you want to make messes or do you want to clean them up?
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
OMG that is exactly what I wanted.ph14 wrote: Your welcome: http://www.chambers-associate.com/Pract ... -Summaries
Which one involves less interaction with assholes?Do you want to make messes or do you want to clean them up?
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- ph14
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Transactional (corporate) is less confrontational than litigation. You're working more with deal facilitation rather than adversarial legal battles.Peg wrote:OMG that is exactly what I wanted.ph14 wrote: Your welcome: http://www.chambers-associate.com/Pract ... -Summaries
[img]Do%20you%20want%20to%20make%20messes%20or%20do%20you%20want%20to%20clean%20them%20up?[/img]
Which one involves less interaction with assholes?
- patrickd139
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Neither.Peg wrote:Which one involves less interaction with assholes?
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Oh this is starting to ring a bell, I remember hearing this somewhere.ph14 wrote: Transactional (corporate) is less confrontational than litigation. You're working more with deal facilitation rather than adversarial legal battles.
Meanwhile, if any litigators/corporate attorneys stumble across this thread, please dish to me (briefly) what you love/hate about your work.
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
The difference is very simple. Litigators handle lawsuits. Corporate lawyers handle business deals. It's two completely different lines of work. You can imagine.
- traehekat
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
While the Chambers summaries someone posted are extremely helpful for this sort of thing, I suggest doing a forum search if you haven't already. This has been talked about numerous times and there is plenty of good info out there for both your own curiosity and cover letter writing purposes.
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
I'll also take the opportunity to plug bankruptcy, especially debtor's side work.
In restructuring, you do a lot of deal work and also get to make court appearances for a little sprinkling of the lit side of things. Further, it's nice that instead of just being the lawyer told to go paper the deal, you're legitimately counseling the client through a situation they have (probably) never been through before.
In restructuring, you do a lot of deal work and also get to make court appearances for a little sprinkling of the lit side of things. Further, it's nice that instead of just being the lawyer told to go paper the deal, you're legitimately counseling the client through a situation they have (probably) never been through before.
- stratocophic
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Med school, if you don't go into proctologypatrickd139 wrote:Neither.Peg wrote:Which one involves less interaction with assholes?
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
http://www.hiyoooo.com/stratocophic wrote:Med school, if you don't go into proctologypatrickd139 wrote:Neither.Peg wrote:Which one involves less interaction with assholes?
Give his head one click for me.
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- stratocophic
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
I approve this followupTransferthrowaway wrote:http://www.hiyoooo.com/stratocophic wrote:Med school, if you don't go into proctologypatrickd139 wrote:Neither.Peg wrote:Which one involves less interaction with assholes?
Give his head one click for me.
- patrickd139
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
My father is bankruptcy attorney (has represented individuals with no assets, done creditors rights collection for banks and everything in between).Transferthrowaway wrote:I'll also take the opportunity to plug bankruptcy, especially debtor's side work.
In restructuring, you do a lot of deal work and also get to make court appearances for a little sprinkling of the lit side of things. Further, it's nice that instead of just being the lawyer told to go paper the deal, you're legitimately counseling the client through a situation they have (probably) never been through before.
While bankruptcy does blend transactional and litigation work nicely (as does tax controversy work, for that matter), I don't think young bankruptcy lawyers do what you think they do. If you're at a firm working on 'restructuring,' you're sure as hell not going to be meeting the client, much less 'counseling' them through a situation they've never been through before, because you've never been through it before either. You'll be papering the deal just like every other first year associate.
Now if you want actual client interaction, you'll probably be able to start representing individual debtors pretty soon out, in a smaller market, by hanging a shingle or small firm. In that case, you'll get the client counseling aspect, but you sure as hell won't be "restructuring" anything of significance.
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
I'm talking about as a career, bro. Also, restructuring associates at places like K&E are getting significant client contact and running specific aspects by the time they're 4th years.patrickd139 wrote:My father is bankruptcy attorney (has represented individuals with no assets, done creditors rights collection for banks and everything in between).Transferthrowaway wrote:I'll also take the opportunity to plug bankruptcy, especially debtor's side work.
In restructuring, you do a lot of deal work and also get to make court appearances for a little sprinkling of the lit side of things. Further, it's nice that instead of just being the lawyer told to go paper the deal, you're legitimately counseling the client through a situation they have (probably) never been through before.
While bankruptcy does blend transactional and litigation work nicely (as does tax controversy work, for that matter), I don't think young bankruptcy lawyers do what you think they do. If you're at a firm working on 'restructuring,' you're sure as hell not going to be meeting the client, much less 'counseling' them through a situation they've never been through before, because you've never been through it before either. You'll be papering the deal just like every other first year associate.
Now if you want actual client interaction, you'll probably be able to start representing individual debtors pretty soon out, in a smaller market, by hanging a shingle or small firm. In that case, you'll get the client counseling aspect, but you sure as hell won't be "restructuring" anything of significance.
Last edited by Transferthrowaway on Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
zzzzzZZZZzzZZZZzZzzzzzz....Transferthrowaway wrote:I'll also take the opportunity to plug bankruptcy, especially debtor's side work.
In restructuring, you do a lot of deal work and also get to...
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
I am pretty sure that this is incorrect. Both are pretty awful on the hours front, but litigation has lots more ups and downs than corporate. I think overall litigators probably end up working more hours when things are really busy.Peg wrote:I have no idea why I'm interested in litigation, apart from the fact that the hours are slightly better and corporate law sounds goddawful.
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
I'm just a 3L, but I'm a 3L who's done several litigation internships and both lit and corporate work at a law firm. This is what I can tell you:
Litigation:
Highly adversarial, things may get a bit personal, be prepared to hate your adversary
Every case is different in some way, fact-driven, can involve different combinations of claims/causes of action
Lots of research into cases that support your client, long and tedious but frequent exposure to new areas of law
Hours are unpredictable, your adversary may suddenly file a motion and create 40 hours of work you have 3 days to do
Very few cases reach trial these days, parties prefer to settle pre-trial, but you'll get to do depositions and pre-trial motions
Victories are celebrations, but losses are brutal, and your client hates you because he didn't want to have to hire you anyway
Corporate:
Typically all parties want a favorable outcome, but depending on difficulty of parties, you might like all parties or end up hating everyone
Work is extremely similar between transactions, and people often quickly specialize in one type of work (M&A, VC, etc).
Research is often into prior successful contracts, long and boring as you cut+paste old good contracts to Frankenstein new ones
Hours are more predictable, but still brutal; you'll still have 40 hours of work in 3 days, just know on your calendar it's the 3 days before your client's deadline
Projects can fall apart at just about any stage, but could live on from there by having your client find a new buyer/seller that suits their needs
Closed deals are celebrations, failures are reasons to just try gain, and your client loves you because you helped make the deal they were willing to make
Litigation:
Highly adversarial, things may get a bit personal, be prepared to hate your adversary
Every case is different in some way, fact-driven, can involve different combinations of claims/causes of action
Lots of research into cases that support your client, long and tedious but frequent exposure to new areas of law
Hours are unpredictable, your adversary may suddenly file a motion and create 40 hours of work you have 3 days to do
Very few cases reach trial these days, parties prefer to settle pre-trial, but you'll get to do depositions and pre-trial motions
Victories are celebrations, but losses are brutal, and your client hates you because he didn't want to have to hire you anyway
Corporate:
Typically all parties want a favorable outcome, but depending on difficulty of parties, you might like all parties or end up hating everyone
Work is extremely similar between transactions, and people often quickly specialize in one type of work (M&A, VC, etc).
Research is often into prior successful contracts, long and boring as you cut+paste old good contracts to Frankenstein new ones
Hours are more predictable, but still brutal; you'll still have 40 hours of work in 3 days, just know on your calendar it's the 3 days before your client's deadline
Projects can fall apart at just about any stage, but could live on from there by having your client find a new buyer/seller that suits their needs
Closed deals are celebrations, failures are reasons to just try gain, and your client loves you because you helped make the deal they were willing to make
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Can anyone substantiate his claims? I've heard varying things on the predictability of work for corp/lit.
- Old Gregg
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Litigation is way more predictable than corporate. Because you know the filing dates and hearing dates for your cases (or, at least, you SHOULD know them), you also know where the peaks and valleys are. In corporate, on the other hand, you could find yourself doing nothing for a week and then, suddenly, on Friday at 5pm, you lose your weekend because a client wants a deal closed on Monday.funstuff wrote:Can anyone substantiate his claims? I've heard varying things on the predictability of work for corp/lit.
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Yeah this was actually exactly what I heard, which is why I was leaning towards litigation.Fresh Prince wrote:Litigation is way more predictable than corporate. Because you know the filing dates and hearing dates for your cases (or, at least, you SHOULD know them), you also know where the peaks and valleys are. In corporate, on the other hand, you could find yourself doing nothing for a week and then, suddenly, on Friday at 5pm, you lose your weekend because a client wants a deal closed on Monday.funstuff wrote:Can anyone substantiate his claims? I've heard varying things on the predictability of work for corp/lit.
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Deadlines for litigation almost never hold in large cases. The pretrial conference schedule is set and then 2 days before a big deadline one side (or both) will request an extension. This means you work like crazy only to have to do it all again in 2 months. Judges also have great habits of changing the schedule when they don't like it, decide they want to take a vacation, or have a conflict with another case.Fresh Prince wrote:Litigation is way more predictable than corporate. Because you know the filing dates and hearing dates for your cases (or, at least, you SHOULD know them), you also know where the peaks and valleys are. In corporate, on the other hand, you could find yourself doing nothing for a week and then, suddenly, on Friday at 5pm, you lose your weekend because a client wants a deal closed on Monday.funstuff wrote:Can anyone substantiate his claims? I've heard varying things on the predictability of work for corp/lit.
I would be very surprised if litigation were more predictable than corporate, but I haven't had involvement with the legal side of transactional work before.
- Unitas
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
bdubs wrote:Deadlines for litigation almost never hold in large cases. The pretrial conference schedule is set and then 2 days before a big deadline one side (or both) will request an extension. This means you work like crazy only to have to do it all again in 2 months. Judges also have great habits of changing the schedule when they don't like it, decide they want to take a vacation, or have a conflict with another case.Fresh Prince wrote:Litigation is way more predictable than corporate. Because you know the filing dates and hearing dates for your cases (or, at least, you SHOULD know them), you also know where the peaks and valleys are. In corporate, on the other hand, you could find yourself doing nothing for a week and then, suddenly, on Friday at 5pm, you lose your weekend because a client wants a deal closed on Monday.funstuff wrote:Can anyone substantiate his claims? I've heard varying things on the predictability of work for corp/lit.
I would be very surprised if litigation were more predictable than corporate, but I haven't had involvement with the legal side of transactional work before.
I have heard over and over again that Tax is where the best hours are at. Not sure why that would be so given the work depends to a large part on corporate deal work and also some on litigation settlements I would assume.
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Re: Litigation vs Corporate quick run-through?
Aren't you a 1L?bdubs wrote:Deadlines for litigation almost never hold in large cases. The pretrial conference schedule is set and then 2 days before a big deadline one side (or both) will request an extension. This means you work like crazy only to have to do it all again in 2 months. Judges also have great habits of changing the schedule when they don't like it, decide they want to take a vacation, or have a conflict with another case.Fresh Prince wrote:Litigation is way more predictable than corporate. Because you know the filing dates and hearing dates for your cases (or, at least, you SHOULD know them), you also know where the peaks and valleys are. In corporate, on the other hand, you could find yourself doing nothing for a week and then, suddenly, on Friday at 5pm, you lose your weekend because a client wants a deal closed on Monday.funstuff wrote:Can anyone substantiate his claims? I've heard varying things on the predictability of work for corp/lit.
I would be very surprised if litigation were more predictable than corporate, but I haven't had involvement with the legal side of transactional work before.
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