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I think it's because associates get forced out after a while.

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I think it's because associates get forced out after a while.

Depends what you mean by "forced." I really think it's a combination of (1) and (2). Relatively few associates are explicitly asked to leave. Instead, by your 4th year or so, most associates start getting the subtle message (though reviews, informal conversations, etc.) that they don't really have a shot at making partner, at which point they decide to look for other jobs, figuring it's not worthwhile to put up with the hours, stress, etc. if you're going to be a perma-associate (or get pushed out in 2-3 years).

So you could call these people "forced out," but by the same token it's not as if they're asked to leave.

This thread seems pointless.

I am assuming it is just to give false hope about making partner.

A survey filled out by a bunch of 0Ls is not going to change anything.

imchuckbass58 wrote:

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I think it's because associates get forced out after a while.

Depends what you mean by "forced." I really think it's a combination of (1) and (2). Relatively few associates are explicitly asked to leave. Instead, by your 4th year or so, most associates start getting the subtle message (though reviews, informal conversations, etc.) that they don't really have a shot at making partner, at which point they decide to look for other jobs, figuring it's not worthwhile to put up with the hours, stress, etc. if you're going to be a perma-associate (or get pushed out in 2-3 years).

So you could call these people "forced out," but by the same token it's not as if they're asked to leave.

I guess "forced" isn't a broad enough term to encapsulate what I meant. I'm referring to people who leave because of subtle messages about their dim prospects for making partner in option 2.

At my firm (top NYC) it's literally 90%+ option 2 or option 3 (they're really the same when you come right down to it). This varies firm to firm. Basically the only people who get forced out are associates who have been at the firm for years but aren't cut out for partner, most pick up on signals, get tired, or want a change instead.

The life of a big law attorney isn't gentle.

The partners don't want to fire you.
They want associates to take the hint and start looking for a job elsewhere in a Fortune 1000 company as general counsel.
Then they want you to hire the law firm where you used to work.

Trust me. They will give you a long time to look if you are promising.
Their goal is for you to leave on good terms and become a million dollar client in the future.

I think people are underestimating how many people are forced to leave. Of course most V100 firms rarely lets people go (ITE mass layoffs aside), but many will make the message clear that you're on notice and should find another job soon or they WILL fire you. Several people who've actually worked at these firms say that this fact isn't as apparent while they were in law school, but they realized it after joining firms.

cattleprod wrote:The partners don't want to fire you.
They want associates to take the hint and start looking for a job elsewhere in a Fortune 1000 company as general counsel.
Then they want you to hire the law firm where you used to work.

Trust me. They will give you a long time to look if you are promising.
Their goal is for you to leave on good terms and become a million dollar client in the future.

Subtle hints? Sounds like the ideal place for George Costanza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnofMbHgHfc

mrloblaw wrote:

cattleprod wrote:The partners don't want to fire you.
They want associates to take the hint and start looking for a job elsewhere in a Fortune 1000 company as general counsel.
Then they want you to hire the law firm where you used to work.

Trust me. They will give you a long time to look if you are promising.
Their goal is for you to leave on good terms and become a million dollar client in the future.

Subtle hints? Sounds like the ideal place for George Costanza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnofMbHgHfc

lol nice

mrloblaw wrote:

cattleprod wrote:The partners don't want to fire you.
They want associates to take the hint and start looking for a job elsewhere in a Fortune 1000 company as general counsel.
Then they want you to hire the law firm where you used to work.

Trust me. They will give you a long time to look if you are promising.
Their goal is for you to leave on good terms and become a million dollar client in the future.

Subtle hints? Sounds like the ideal place for George Costanza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnofMbHgHfc

That's exactly what I thought about when I heard that many people accept "cold offers." Would really like to hear a story of someone who did.