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What is the difference in performance between a bad summer associate and a truly awful summer associate? I have had a couple of friends, one of whom summer at a large firm and did something so bad that the firm no-offered them and told them they will no longer return their phone calls. He said it was just an inattention to detail that got him dinged so badly, but I have a hard time believing that.

Another was fired thirty minutes into a government internship and escorted from the building by security. I can't figure out what you could do in 30 minutes that is so bad to warrant immediate termination.

And at a firm I was interviewing at where I didn't get the job, I was "informed" three times not to worry that they had no-offered both their former summers because they were "just lazy" and they were sure I wouldn't be like them.

I know people are no-offered for doing sloppy work, not being a team player, not doing enough work, whatever, but what sort of thing do you have to do to have a firm actually badmouthing you or blacklisting you in the region.

I think you should edit the thread title to: "what kinds of things get you no-offered"... it doesn't really make sense the way you titled it.

tlstlstls73 wrote:I think you should edit the thread title to: "what kinds of things get you no-offered"... it doesn't really make sense the way you titled it.

Thanks, changed.

I'm interested in knowing this as well, out of curiosity.

Although no fault of the SA, perhaps the biggest way to get no-offered is to profess an interest in a practice area (e.g., real estate) that is not likely hiring now or in the near future.

dougroberts wrote:I'm interested in knowing this as well, out of curiosity.

Although no fault of the SA, perhaps the biggest way to get no-offered is to profess an interest in a practice area (e.g., real estate) that is not likely hiring now or in the near future.

If you were hired via PLIP at a general practice firm, is it safe to keep expressing an interest in IP Lit? All the CB interviewers were in IP lit and that's what they talked about hiring me for, but wondering if I should at some point show willingness to go elsewhere, in case that dries up, per your logic? Or is it OK to keep expressing excitement re: ip lit.

Anonymous User wrote: I know people are no-offered for doing sloppy work, not being a team player, not doing enough work, whatever, but what sort of thing do you have to do to have a firm actually badmouthing you or blacklisting you in the region.

Getting no-offered is essentially a blacklist which will stop other firms from wanting you, so I guess the answer is, doing sloppy work, not being a team player, not doing enough work, etc.

Anonymous User wrote:

dougroberts wrote:I'm interested in knowing this as well, out of curiosity.

Although no fault of the SA, perhaps the biggest way to get no-offered is to profess an interest in a practice area (e.g., real estate) that is not likely hiring now or in the near future.

If you were hired via PLIP at a general practice firm, is it safe to keep expressing an interest in IP Lit? All the CB interviewers were in IP lit and that's what they talked about hiring me for, but wondering if I should at some point show willingness to go elsewhere, in case that dries up, per your logic? Or is it OK to keep expressing excitement re: ip lit.

IP hardly ever goes dry. i wouldn't worry about it, unless you don't want to do IP.

sleeping with someone at the firm, saying something ridiculously offensive (i heard tales about a summer who told another summer that her lack of a sense of humor was tragic... "like an abortion!"), blowing lunch budget every time you go out, turning in half-done work or not doing it at all, asking a secretary to do your dry-cleaning or wash fruit for you (true story), telling the public about something confidential you're working on, coming to work drunk/high, wearing skirts that are too short...

basically anything that you wouldn't do if you had an iota of common sense.

Fired in half an hour? That has to be some kind of a record, do you have any idea what happened?

azntwice wrote:sleeping with someone at the firm, saying something ridiculously offensive (i heard tales about a summer who told another summer that her lack of a sense of humor was tragic... "like an abortion!"), blowing lunch budget every time you go out, turning in half-done work or not doing it at all, asking a secretary to do your dry-cleaning or wash fruit for you (true story), telling the public about something confidential you're working on, coming to work drunk/high, wearing skirts that are too short...

basically anything that you wouldn't do if you had an iota of common sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM ? I've worked in a lot of offices, and people do that all the time.

just because people "do it all the time" doesn't mean it's something you should be doing when you're trying to get a job there. hard to imagine how being labeled as the "office whore/man-whore" is going to help your career prospects.

mrloblaw wrote:

azntwice wrote:sleeping with someone at the firm, saying something ridiculously offensive (i heard tales about a summer who told another summer that her lack of a sense of humor was tragic... "like an abortion!"), blowing lunch budget every time you go out, turning in half-done work or not doing it at all, asking a secretary to do your dry-cleaning or wash fruit for you (true story), telling the public about something confidential you're working on, coming to work drunk/high, wearing skirts that are too short...

basically anything that you wouldn't do if you had an iota of common sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM ? I've worked in a lot of offices, and people do that all the time.

This is totally acceptable. I mean seriously. Some associates have pools to see who will bag the first/most summer(s). I wish I were kidding. However, don't do it on the desk in your office and not with the cleaning lady.

Anonymous User wrote:just because people "do it all the time" doesn't mean it's something you should be doing when you're trying to get a job there. hard to imagine how being labeled as the "office whore/man-whore" is going to help your career prospects.

really? you "can't imagine" how that could help? I can think of a hundred ways it could help.

Anonymous User wrote:

mrloblaw wrote:

azntwice wrote:sleeping with someone at the firm, saying something ridiculously offensive (i heard tales about a summer who told another summer that her lack of a sense of humor was tragic... "like an abortion!"), blowing lunch budget every time you go out, turning in half-done work or not doing it at all, asking a secretary to do your dry-cleaning or wash fruit for you (true story), telling the public about something confidential you're working on, coming to work drunk/high, wearing skirts that are too short...

basically anything that you wouldn't do if you had an iota of common sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM ? I've worked in a lot of offices, and people do that all the time.

This is totally acceptable. I mean seriously. Some associates have pools to see who will bag the first/most summer(s). I wish I were kidding. However, don't do it on the desk in your office and not with the cleaning lady.

Speaking of abortions, this thread needs one.

luthersloan wrote:Fired in half an hour? That has to be some kind of a record, do you have any idea what happened?

Maybe he lied on his application? or sexually harassed the boss before knowing she was the boss?

Anonymous User wrote:What is the difference in performance between a bad summer associate and a truly awful summer associate? I have had a couple of friends, one of whom summer at a large firm and did something so bad that the firm no-offered them and told them they will no longer return their phone calls. He said it was just an inattention to detail that got him dinged so badly, but I have a hard time believing that.

Another was fired thirty minutes into a government internship and escorted from the building by security. I can't figure out what you could do in 30 minutes that is so bad to warrant immediate termination.

And at a firm I was interviewing at where I didn't get the job, I was "informed" three times not to worry that they had no-offered both their former summers because they were "just lazy" and they were sure I wouldn't be like them.

I know people are no-offered for doing sloppy work, not being a team player, not doing enough work, whatever, but what sort of thing do you have to do to have a firm actually badmouthing you or blacklisting you in the region.

http://www.tuckermax.com/stories/the-no ... n-debacle/

sadly enough, tucker max did all of this stuff pre-recession...but some summers in my class did a few of things (most notably being incredibly intoxicated and flirting inappropriately with partners) a few months ago.

I've heard a few stories from attorneys at two different firms that lead me to put the following items on the list:

- Be introduced to a judge, have a nice conversation with him, then go into his office to ask random legal questions and make small talk in the ensuing weeks. Then get an assignment from a partner and email the judge (not his clerk mind you, the judge himself) to ask for advice on how to research it.

- Run for public office in an adjoining county and WIN right after graduating law school due to your family name. Get your 2L firm to agree, tentatively, to bring you on after the next election if you decide not to run for re-election or lose. While in public office, earn a reputation for corruption and incompetence, culminating in a handful of criminal convictions and an appellate court opinion outlining certain grotesque and embarrassing physical traits of yours that were introduced as evidence for one of the charges.

- Work for a small town firm and approach every negotiation as if you were on Law & Order. Refuse to engage other attorneys in small talk outside of the courtroom. Give dirty looks to any opposing counsel. Refer to clients as "you small town people" and other similar labels. Sit at counsel table during a minor criminal trial and loudly suggest to your boss, at virtually every possible opportunity, that he should object.

- Repeatedly and awkwardly hit on a secretary who is happily married to a long-time client.

choosing the wrong firm or being unlucky enough to be at a firm that wouldn't offer back all their summers.... Don't be baited by their explaination that they want to hire all the summers and look at their actions. Look on NALP at their previous offer rate.