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How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:25 am
by Anonymous User
When you realize that you got an education that costs so much that you need a job that pays north of 100k to pay your loans back, how do you stay motivated? What is even the point of the 2L and 3L years when all employers care about are your 1L grades? Where's the motivation to keep studying?
Also, if you strike out at OCI, what is the point of being on a journal? Sounds like more time and work that you're not being paid for.
Discuss.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:27 am
by Aqualibrium
2L grades are important if you strike out at OCI and end up looking for a job throughout your 3L year, and if you want to clerk.
2L and 3L grades are also somewhat important if you want to lateral to another firm...
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:36 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Also, if you strike out at OCI, what is the point of being on a journal? Sounds like more time and work that you're not being paid for.
Discuss.
You agreed to be on the journal before OCI. If you drop it after OCI, your colleagues will remember later that you cut and run when it suited you. It won't hurt you getting a job, but down the road when you want to lateral and you need a former classmate to pull some strings, he may not get back to your email if he remembers you left him holding the source collect bag. Also, more practically, if you strike out at OCI, you still need a job. Being on a journal counts less at places like the gov't or non-legal, but it still counts, especially if it is a half serious job (consulting, state court clerk, etc) and the reviewer knows that being on a journal is a checkbox of credibility.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:42 am
by Big Shrimpin
Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Also, if you strike out at OCI, what is the point of being on a journal? Sounds like more time and work that you're not being paid for.
Discuss.
You agreed to be on the journal before OCI. If you drop it after OCI, your colleagues will remember later that you cut and run when it suited you. It won't hurt you getting a job, but
down the road when you want to lateral and you need a former classmate to pull some strings, he may not get back to your email if he remembers you left him holding the source collect bag. Also, more practically, if you strike out at OCI, you still need a job. Being on a journal counts less at places like the gov't or non-legal, but it still counts, especially if it is a half serious job (consulting, state court clerk, etc) and the reviewer knows that being on a journal is a checkbox of credibility.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:53 am
by Anonymous User
Also, 2L grades will help a lot if you want to change firms at 3L oci. Say, because you hate the firm you end up with. Or because they don't care for you can cold offer you. (Nor sure if good grades will help erase the blackmark of a no-offer in a not totally fucked economy, but I am sure they would at least not hurt if you find yourself in that spot).
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:59 am
by omninode
Big Shrimpin wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Also, if you strike out at OCI, what is the point of being on a journal? Sounds like more time and work that you're not being paid for.
Discuss.
You agreed to be on the journal before OCI. If you drop it after OCI, your colleagues will remember later that you cut and run when it suited you. It won't hurt you getting a job, but
down the road when you want to lateral and you need a former classmate to pull some strings, he may not get back to your email if he remembers you left him holding the source collect bag. Also, more practically, if you strike out at OCI, you still need a job. Being on a journal counts less at places like the gov't or non-legal, but it still counts, especially if it is a half serious job (consulting, state court clerk, etc) and the reviewer knows that being on a journal is a checkbox of credibility.
Seriously. Is anybody going to remember some kid who quit a journal when they were 2L? If they remember, will they still care? Seems unlikely.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:26 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:When you realize that you got an education that costs so much that you need a job that pays north of 100k to pay your loans back, how do you stay motivated? What is even the point of the 2L and 3L years when all employers care about are your 1L grades? Where's the motivation to keep studying?
Also, if you strike out at OCI, what is the point of being on a journal? Sounds like more time and work that you're not being paid for.
Discuss.
This will happen even if you don't strike out at OCI. Also, who cares if you need a six figure job to pay off your loans? If you got one, you'll be banking hardcore for decades and even 200k for law school will just be a drop in the bucket. Enjoy lounging around the 2nd and 3rd year, although don't quit law review if you're already on it---the smart kids were the ones that didn't want to do law review, didn't, and still got biglaw jobs. Those kids are strait up in college mode for two years before they go break their backs for a firm. Bottom line, don't stay motivated, because it doesn't matter.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:44 pm
by Big Shrimpin
Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:When you realize that you got an education that costs so much that you need a job that pays north of 100k to pay your loans back, how do you stay motivated? What is even the point of the 2L and 3L years when all employers care about are your 1L grades? Where's the motivation to keep studying?
Also, if you strike out at OCI, what is the point of being on a journal? Sounds like more time and work that you're not being paid for.
Discuss.
This will happen even if you don't strike out at OCI. Also, who cares if you need a six figure job to pay off your loans? If you got one, you'll be
banking hardcore for decades and even 200k for law school will just be a drop in the bucket. Enjoy lounging around the 2nd and 3rd year, although don't quit law review if you're already on it---the smart kids were the ones that didn't want to do law review, didn't, and still got biglaw jobs. Those kids are strait up in college mode for two years before they go break their backs for a firm. Bottom line, don't stay motivated, because it doesn't matter.
lol GL w/ that
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:49 pm
by Lieut Kaffee
I feel like dropping journal in this manner would have implications beyond your peers maybe holding it against you in five years. Some kind of black mark on your transcript or some kind of honor code proceeding. I could be wrong though.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:57 pm
by Anonymous User
Big Shrimpin wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:When you realize that you got an education that costs so much that you need a job that pays north of 100k to pay your loans back, how do you stay motivated? What is even the point of the 2L and 3L years when all employers care about are your 1L grades? Where's the motivation to keep studying?
Also, if you strike out at OCI, what is the point of being on a journal? Sounds like more time and work that you're not being paid for.
Discuss.
This will happen even if you don't strike out at OCI. Also, who cares if you need a six figure job to pay off your loans? If you got one, you'll be
banking hardcore for decades and even 200k for law school will just be a drop in the bucket. Enjoy lounging around the 2nd and 3rd year, although don't quit law review if you're already on it---the smart kids were the ones that didn't want to do law review, didn't, and still got biglaw jobs. Those kids are strait up in college mode for two years before they go break their backs for a firm. Bottom line, don't stay motivated, because it doesn't matter.
lol GL w/ that
Explain why this is funny or unrealistic? Even the ppl who get pushed out land in-house at six figure jobs. The law school scam sky is falling schtick might make sense IF you get shut out of biglaw, but if you can hack it and you got it it's still a golden ticket. U mad bro?
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:57 pm
by Anonymous User
I really thought I would hate doing a journal, initially didn't get on one and felt pretty good about it (top 10% at MVP figured I'd get biglaw anyway), and then got off the waitlist at my school's most "prestigious" (quotes b/c I'm not sure how true this is and even if it is it has been clear that firm interviewers have no idea) journal and got risk-adverse and followed the herd and joined it. I hate it so far, but it was my own decision and I'm gonna have to stick with it even though I got biglaw. I wish I wouldn't have joined, but we gotta deal with the consequences of our decisions.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:29 pm
by BarbellDreams
I stay motivated by reading the state of the legal market on Above the Law daily.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:29 pm
by Big Shrimpin
Anonymous User wrote:Big Shrimpin wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:When you realize that you got an education that costs so much that you need a job that pays north of 100k to pay your loans back, how do you stay motivated? What is even the point of the 2L and 3L years when all employers care about are your 1L grades? Where's the motivation to keep studying?
Also, if you strike out at OCI, what is the point of being on a journal? Sounds like more time and work that you're not being paid for.
Discuss.
This will happen even if you don't strike out at OCI. Also, who cares if you need a six figure job to pay off your loans? If you got one, you'll be
banking hardcore for decades and even 200k for law school will just be a drop in the bucket. Enjoy lounging around the 2nd and 3rd year, although don't quit law review if you're already on it---the smart kids were the ones that didn't want to do law review, didn't, and still got biglaw jobs. Those kids are strait up in college mode for two years before they go break their backs for a firm. Bottom line, don't stay motivated, because it doesn't matter.
lol GL w/ that
Explain why this is funny or unrealistic? Even the ppl who get pushed out land in-house at six figure jobs. The law school scam sky is falling schtick might make sense IF you get shut out of biglaw, but if you can hack it and you got it it's still a golden ticket. U mad bro?
(a) I'm guessing you're an 0L/1L/not very familiar with the employment forum.
(b) You're abusing the anon feature. I don't have time to tell the mods, but if you read the forum poasting rules, you'll see what I mean.
(c) Assuming you're speaking about traditional biglaw, attrition rates at such firms are quite high. For example, a first-year associate's class will probably have, at most, 7-10% of that class become partner within their firm (7-10% being on the higher end). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and say that some lateral into other biglaw gigs and become partner. Thus, we'll make the assumption that 15% of your first-year class makes biglaw partner. In those cases, your initial assertion that you're guaranteed to "be banking hardcore for decades" makes sense.
Those who lateral to mid/small firm practices will make much less than biglaw partners, generally. Thus, in those cases, you likely won't "be banking hardcore for decades."
Moreover, lateralling in-house invariably leads to up to a 50% pay cut. Thus, contrary to your understanding, in-house laterals make far less than their biglaw counterparts. Certainly, if you make GC at an in-house company, you'll be doing just peachy. But that distinction is exceedingly difficult to obtain: so is life. Thus, your chances of "banking hardcore for decades" in-house are also far from guaranteed.
Honestly, bro, your poast reeks of ignorance. Thanks for playing.
*edited to include a shout-out to your referring to biglaw as a "golden ticket." Classic.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:35 pm
by Anonymous User
Big Shrimpin wrote:
(a) I'm guessing you're an 0L/1L/not very familiar with the employment forum.
(b) You're abusing the anon feature. I don't have time to tell the mods, but if you read the forum poasting rules, you'll see what I mean.
(c) Assuming you're speaking about traditional biglaw, attrition rates at such firms are quite high. For example, a first-year associate's class will probably have, at most, 7-10% of that class become partner within their firm (7-10% being on the higher end). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and say that some lateral into other biglaw gigs and become partner. Thus, we'll make the assumption that 15% of your first-year class makes biglaw partner. In those cases, your initial assertion that you're guaranteed to "be banking hardcore for decades" makes sense.
Those who lateral to mid/small firm practices will make much less than biglaw partners, generally. Thus, in those cases, you likely won't "be banking hardcore for decades."
Moreover, lateralling in-house invariably leads to up to a 50% pay cut. Thus, contrary to your understanding, in-house laterals make far less than their biglaw counterparts. Certainly, if you make GC at an in-house company, you'll be doing just peachy. But that distinction is exceedingly difficult to obtain: so is life. Thus, your chances of "banking hardcore for decades" in-house are also far from guaranteed.
Honestly, bro, your poast reeks of ignorance. Thanks for playing.
Anon b/c don't want to out self since I'm a 2L with a job offer---that is perfectly acceptable according to the rules. Not sure what part of my claims you've proven wrong... If you stay in biglaw and make partner, 200k is a drop in the bucket. If you lateral to midlaw and make partner, you'll still be making six figures, probably at least 200k. If you go in-house after 4-5 years of biglaw, you will make 100k+ for your entire career. So, tell me again how this is not "banking hardcore for decades?" My tone may not reek of formalism, but the conventional wisdom on this board (with which I am quite familiar) that lawyers will be poor needs some counterweight. Any lawyer who does biglaw and either 1 - stays and makes partner, 2 - laterals down and makes partner, or 3 - goes in-house will make far more than the median household income for their careers and certainly won't have a problem with 200k for a degree in the long run.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:41 pm
by romothesavior
Anonymous User wrote:although don't quit law review if you're already on it
I so, so want to do this.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:42 pm
by Anonymous User
romothesavior wrote:Anonymous User wrote:although don't quit law review if you're already on it
I so, so want to do this.
Seems really dangerous. Also, not to be lame, but aren't there great benefits in terms of learning to edit from law review? Or is that overhyped?
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:45 pm
by romothesavior
Anonymous User wrote:romothesavior wrote:Anonymous User wrote:although don't quit law review if you're already on it
I so, so want to do this.
Seems really dangerous. Also, not to be lame, but aren't there great benefits in terms of learning to edit from law review? Or is that overhyped?
Super overhyped.
I'm not going to quit, but I strongly considered it over this past weekend when I had a check and my note outline due on the same day.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:51 pm
by MrAnon
An illusion exists that some sort of work exists that will pay you enough to live well. Schools perpetuate it, professors perpetuate it, career services perpetuates it. There is some shame involved in cutting and running. The truth is that most would be better off if they dropped the journal at least and got a paralegal gig to bring in income while in school. the bigger truth is that good jobs are not available to half the class. I love it when professors chirp "You'll all find jobs...." Really???? is that why the school employed 20 students 9 months after graduation? They just say that stuff so you'll stay enrolled and your loan money can pay their fat-cat salaries. Or they are just ignorant about how bad it is. Not hard to believe when you see how much they earn versus how little they work.
I dont know why you guys are so worried about other journal members feelings about you. Their feelings won't pay your loans even if those feelings are cheery. Besides that, if you dont have a job through OCI you are embarking on an entirely different career tract that wont have you crossing paths with them again, assuming they did snag jobs.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:54 pm
by Big Shrimpin
Anonymous User wrote:the conventional wisdom on this board (with which I am quite familiar) that lawyers will be poor needs some counterweight.
I'll agree with this, generally.
I'm not touting the defeatist line of thinking. In fact, I'll be working in biglaw next fall after graduation, and I definitely hope to fall into one of those three career paths. My point, which I could have made clearer, is that without your qualifer about median household income (e.g. making the broad generalization that you're gonn bank for decades or whatever), un/misinformed 0Ls could stumble across your generalization and make the conclusion that getting a biglaw gig writes their ticket. To be sure, there is a huge upside potential for those with a passion/insistence in staying in the field. Unfortunately, however, there's no guarantee that someone will fall into one of those three career paths.
I'm also really bored/procrastinating for trial ad, so I'm looking for an argument. Sry dood. GL w/ the SA next summer.
To answer OPs question: you stay motivated by convincing yourself you'll be no-offered for some irrational reason. Or you just pick up a hobby.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:22 pm
by Eco
A few arguments:
Big law etc... only applies to either a) those in t-10 or b) those lower ranked schools with high gpas.
In a class of (sample size here) 100 students, 30 of them will be top 30%. 70 of them will not. And those 70 will be shut out of OCI for the most part.
I feel like dropping journal in this manner would have implications beyond your peers maybe holding it against you in five years. Some kind of black mark on your transcript or some kind of honor code proceeding. I could be wrong though.
Why is that a big deal though?
If your transcript has already shut you out of OCI (giving the example of someone shut out of OCI), then what would a "no credit" mark on your transcript possibly do? IMO if your GPA isn't high enough to get screener interviews at OCI, then you might as well not give a shit what's on the transcript because you're not getting a job on the basis of your grades anyways.
And it's easily explanable. "I got sick." "Mom had cancer so I couldn't do everything." Whatever. Better than working for 2 years on a journal doing editing and cite checking, writing a 30+ page note that'll most likely not get published, etc... That time can be used making some money that right now every student needs.
If you don't know already, Obama is signing into law the right of government debt collectors to call your cellphone with robo calls. Get ready for hell if you struck out on OCI.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:26 pm
by 174
Anonymous User wrote:
Also, if you strike out at OCI, what is the point of being in law school?
Discuss.
FTFY.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:29 pm
by Eco
^ hehe lol
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:49 pm
by minnbills
Eco wrote:If you don't know already, Obama is signing into law the right of government debt collectors to call your cellphone with robo calls. Get ready for hell if you struck out on OCI.
You know, there are other things to do as a lawyer besides biglaw.
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:52 pm
by Curious1
minnbills wrote:Eco wrote:If you don't know already, Obama is signing into law the right of government debt collectors to call your cellphone with robo calls. Get ready for hell if you struck out on OCI.
You know, there are other things to do as a lawyer besides biglaw.
Name 4
Re: How do you stay motivated?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:54 pm
by minnbills
Curious1 wrote:minnbills wrote:Eco wrote:If you don't know already, Obama is signing into law the right of government debt collectors to call your cellphone with robo calls. Get ready for hell if you struck out on OCI.
You know, there are other things to do as a lawyer besides biglaw.
Name 4
What? Are you really taking issue with what I said?