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Offer from its Cleveland office.

I know its past layoffs, but that may also mean that it needs more lawyers now.

Also, its merger with the UK firm was meh, but its expansion in Aus seems promising.

Anything you want to share?

Interested in corp.

And hearsay or insider info?

I had lunch with a partner roughly a year ago. All she could talk about was how bleak things looked for the Cleveland market (and impliedly, for the firm). Nice lady, but certainly made me never even entertain the thought of trying for a job there.

Cleveland is also an objectively crappy place to live, so it's not even like you can justify working at a shaky firm by being in a great city like Chicago or NYU.

Fun times in Cleveland again!

It's Cleeeeeeeevvvlannnnd!

Anonymous User wrote: Cleveland is also an objectively crappy place to live, so it's not even like you can justify working at a shaky firm by being in a great city like Chicago or NYU.

Let's not underestimate the value of being able to buy a house for the price of a VCR!

MBZags wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Cleveland is also an objectively crappy place to live, so it's not even like you can justify working at a shaky firm by being in a great city like Chicago or NYU.

Let's not underestimate the value of being able to buy a house for the price of a VCR!

Slight problem: their economy was based on Lebron James. He left.

beardown_tho wrote:

MBZags wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Cleveland is also an objectively crappy place to live, so it's not even like you can justify working at a shaky firm by being in a great city like Chicago or NYU.

Let's not underestimate the value of being able to buy a house for the price of a VCR!

Slight problem: their economy was based on Lebron James. He left.

Not a problem. Cav fans frequent the bars with their sorrow since LBJ and the business maintains an economic equilibrium.

beardown_tho wrote:

MBZags wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Cleveland is also an objectively crappy place to live, so it's not even like you can justify working at a shaky firm by being in a great city like Chicago or NYU.

Let's not underestimate the value of being able to buy a house for the price of a VCR!

Slight problem: their economy was based on Lebron James. He left.

I understand that everyone is hilarious, but Cleveland is not by any means a bad place to live (this coming from someone who has lived in London and NYC). It has the largest theatre complex in the country outside of NYC, as well as the state's only national park and 3 major league sports teams (some of them might even be good someday). Cost of living is low, and for lawyers, the hours are not soul-crushing. The healthcare sector is very likely also on the verge of pulling the city out of its economic slump - maybe not today or tomorrow, but Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals are both nationally renowned medical institutions that are attracting a wider industry to the area. Just because it's not NYC or LA, and doesn't pretend to be, doesn't mean that it's any worse than any other "flyover" city.

That said, Squire Sanders has a great reputation in the area, and is probably with Jones Day the Cleveland equivalent of Kirkland and Sidley (Baker might also be in the running - so I guess we might have a Mayer Brown on our hands, too). You won't get the same high level of work you'd get at those firms or in a major market, but very good work in the area and possibly even more interesting post-merger as things settle in. Worked at Baker and attorneys there regularly handled some really interesting M&A stuff (fun fact: Jones Day Cleveland is the reason Smuckers now owns Jif). No doubt the economy isn't doing well right now, but if you're set on the market and you don't have a Jones Day offer, you can't do much better.

Also, didn't know NYU was its own city now. Maybe that will help it finally get a jump on CLS.

Anonymous User wrote:

beardown_tho wrote:

MBZags wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Cleveland is also an objectively crappy place to live, so it's not even like you can justify working at a shaky firm by being in a great city like Chicago or NYU.

Let's not underestimate the value of being able to buy a house for the price of a VCR!

Slight problem: their economy was based on Lebron James. He left.

I understand that everyone is hilarious, but Cleveland is not by any means a bad place to live (this coming from someone who has lived in London and NYC). It has the largest theatre complex in the country outside of NYC, as well as the state's only national park and 3 major league sports teams (some of them might even be good someday). Cost of living is low, and for lawyers, the hours are not soul-crushing. The healthcare sector is very likely also on the verge of pulling the city out of its economic slump - maybe not today or tomorrow, but Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals are both nationally renowned medical institutions that are attracting a wider industry to the area. Just because it's not NYC or LA, and doesn't pretend to be, doesn't mean that it's any worse than any other "flyover" city.

That said, Squire Sanders has a great reputation in the area, and is probably with Jones Day the Cleveland equivalent of Kirkland and Sidley (Baker might also be in the running - so I guess we might have a Mayer Brown on our hands, too). You won't get the same high level of work you'd get at those firms or in a major market, but very good work in the area and possibly even more interesting post-merger as things settle in. Worked at Baker and attorneys there regularly handled some really interesting M&A stuff (fun fact: Jones Day Cleveland is the reason Smuckers now owns Jif). No doubt the economy isn't doing well right now, but if you're set on the market and you don't have a Jones Day offer, you can't do much better.

Also, didn't know NYU was its own city now. Maybe that will help it finally get a jump on CLS.

Thank you for the reply. Do you think that Cleveland is recovering now? Do you know if SSD is on its way up after all those layoffs?

I like Cleveland and SSD, but I don't want to be in a firm that may fold in the near future (as I was told).

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

beardown_tho wrote:

MBZags wrote:
Let's not underestimate the value of being able to buy a house for the price of a VCR!

Slight problem: their economy was based on Lebron James. He left.

I understand that everyone is hilarious, but Cleveland is not by any means a bad place to live (this coming from someone who has lived in London and NYC). It has the largest theatre complex in the country outside of NYC, as well as the state's only national park and 3 major league sports teams (some of them might even be good someday). Cost of living is low, and for lawyers, the hours are not soul-crushing. The healthcare sector is very likely also on the verge of pulling the city out of its economic slump - maybe not today or tomorrow, but Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals are both nationally renowned medical institutions that are attracting a wider industry to the area. Just because it's not NYC or LA, and doesn't pretend to be, doesn't mean that it's any worse than any other "flyover" city.

That said, Squire Sanders has a great reputation in the area, and is probably with Jones Day the Cleveland equivalent of Kirkland and Sidley (Baker might also be in the running - so I guess we might have a Mayer Brown on our hands, too). You won't get the same high level of work you'd get at those firms or in a major market, but very good work in the area and possibly even more interesting post-merger as things settle in. Worked at Baker and attorneys there regularly handled some really interesting M&A stuff (fun fact: Jones Day Cleveland is the reason Smuckers now owns Jif). No doubt the economy isn't doing well right now, but if you're set on the market and you don't have a Jones Day offer, you can't do much better.

Also, didn't know NYU was its own city now. Maybe that will help it finally get a jump on CLS.

Thank you for the reply. Do you think that Cleveland is recovering now? Do you know if SSD is on its way up after all those layoffs?

I like Cleveland and SSD, but I don't want to be in a firm that may fold in the near future (as I was told).

If given the choice, I would probably take Baker over SSD - it's a firm that's very clearly on the rise. The Cleveland economy is definitely "recovering," but not at the speed of a place like NYC and not in a way that turns the rust belt back into shiny industrial America. I guess the answer to your question really depends on what else you're looking at. Personally, if it's Cleveland or bust, I would go with one of the big three if only because you'd still be marketable downstream if we double-dipped. If you have other offers in other markets, it's a whole different ballgame. You might consider putting up a poll so that people from other markets could chime in if you have offers in other cities.

In the end, now would be the time to schedule a second visit to the firm and talk with partners about the firm's growth strategy, major clients, etc. Nobody really has a great in on this info if they're not at the firm right now. And they won't hate you for asking if you do it tactfully and with subtlety. Then, go with your gut.

I had a buddy work at Squire Cleveland 3 years ago. He told me that moral there is pretty low. They no offered a bunch of people over there during the recession and hasn't taken any summers for a while now.

I have another friend who summered at a Cleveland regional firm just below Squire/Jones/Baker who had basically 1/2 the class get no offered last year. He told me the offer rate was 1/2 this year as well. The firm has no offered more people that they have offered over the past 3-4 years.....

Tread cautiously in Cleveland with your life and career....

Anonymous User wrote:
If given the choice, I would probably take Baker over SSD - it's a firm that's very clearly on the rise. The Cleveland economy is definitely "recovering," but not at the speed of a place like NYC and not in a way that turns the rust belt back into shiny industrial America. I guess the answer to your question really depends on what else you're looking at. Personally, if it's Cleveland or bust, I would go with one of the big three if only because you'd still be marketable downstream if we double-dipped. If you have other offers in other markets, it's a whole different ballgame. You might consider putting up a poll so that people from other markets could chime in if you have offers in other cities.

In the end, now would be the time to schedule a second visit to the firm and talk with partners about the firm's growth strategy, major clients, etc. Nobody really has a great in on this info if they're not at the firm right now. And they won't hate you for asking if you do it tactfully and with subtlety. Then, go with your gut.

My other choice is a top firm in Cincinnati. That firm is financially strong, but much more regional than SSD. What do you think?

Anonymous User wrote: Tread cautiously in Cleveland with your life and career....

titcr

Cleveland's bad and I only think it's getting worse. Right now, Cleveland is called the Detroit of Ohio, but based on my last visit and talks with friends who live there, maybe Detroit should be called the Cleveland of Michigan.