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So it seems like almost every firm in the V20 (aside from GDC) offered ~100% last summer. However, I also know that many of these firms cold-offer. Can anyone tell me approximately how many/what % were cold offered, and at which firms? Specifically interested in NY branches.

Thanks!

Anonymous User wrote:So it seems like almost every firm in the V20 (aside from GDC) offered ~100% last summer. However, I also know that many of these firms cold-offer. Can anyone tell me approximately how many/what % were cold offered, and at which firms? Specifically interested in NY branches.

Thanks!

This data is not reported, so you're probably not going to get an accurate read.

In any case, it's not a figure that's very easy to interpret at as a 2L. By and large, when people get cold-offered at a V20 there is a reason. There are a few people every year who just don't get it: they have a bad attitude about work, they mouth off to partners, they get to a law firm and immediately realize they don't want to work at a firm. I guarantee you every V20 cold offers a few people like this every year.

Sorry, can't find the definition of "cold offer." Help?

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry, can't find the definition of "cold offer." Help?

Cold offer is when a firm says: "We are going to offer you a job for after graduation and here is a card for our department that helps students find employment. We strongly suggest you use it." or something to that effect.

It serves two purposes: 1. it allows a firm to claim to make 100% offers and 2. it allows the students to tell firms during 3L OCI they had a offer and are looking around.

There are rumors about people ignoring it and just showing up to work as normal. Not sure if these are true or not. I think this would be better for the student then just a straight no offer, but would still be a horrible outcome. I don't know if these are more common for students they just didn't have work for or students that messed up during the summer.

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry, can't find the definition of "cold offer." Help?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cold+offer

rayiner wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:So it seems like almost every firm in the V20 (aside from GDC) offered ~100% last summer. However, I also know that many of these firms cold-offer. Can anyone tell me approximately how many/what % were cold offered, and at which firms? Specifically interested in NY branches.

Thanks!

This data is not reported, so you're probably not going to get an accurate read.

In any case, it's not a figure that's very easy to interpret at as a 2L. By and large, when people get cold-offered at a V20 there is a reason. There are a few people every year who just don't get it: they have a bad attitude about work, they mouth off to partners, they get to a law firm and immediately realize they don't want to work at a firm. I guarantee you every V20 cold offers a few people like this every year.

So it's generally not a "biz-as-usual" kind of practice? I'm intending on doing my work and being a normal person - cold offer?

Anonymous User wrote:

rayiner wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:So it seems like almost every firm in the V20 (aside from GDC) offered ~100% last summer. However, I also know that many of these firms cold-offer. Can anyone tell me approximately how many/what % were cold offered, and at which firms? Specifically interested in NY branches.

Thanks!

This data is not reported, so you're probably not going to get an accurate read.

In any case, it's not a figure that's very easy to interpret at as a 2L. By and large, when people get cold-offered at a V20 there is a reason. There are a few people every year who just don't get it: they have a bad attitude about work, they mouth off to partners, they get to a law firm and immediately realize they don't want to work at a firm. I guarantee you every V20 cold offers a few people like this every year.

So it's generally not a "biz-as-usual" kind of practice? I'm intending on doing my work and being a normal person - cold offer?

Probably not, unless you get unlucky and some partner just develops a distaste for you.

bump, any more thoughts?

Really depends on the perspective of the firm. I was at a V25 last summer and my friend was a very likable person who got along with not only all of our summer class, but also all of the attorneys at the firm. Genuinely well-liked. Also did all his/her work and was diligent about completing assignments in a timely fashion. This person was cold-offered. It is very unclear why. So if this ever happens to you or to someone you know, it's not always the case that there is something wrong with you. Sometimes it's just the firm.

There were rumors that a summer got cold offered at the firm I summered with. That highlights the problem, no one really knows who did and didn't get cold offered. I'll just say, if this summer actually did get cold offered, none of the summer class was surprised.

I am not sure whether this was the case this year, but DPW and Paul Weiss have been known to give cold offers in past years.

Anonymous User wrote:Really depends on the perspective of the firm. I was at a V25 last summer and my friend was a very likable person who got along with not only all of our summer class, but also all of the attorneys at the firm. Genuinely well-liked. Also did all his/her work and was diligent about completing assignments in a timely fashion. This person was cold-offered. It is very unclear why. So if this ever happens to you or to someone you know, it's not always the case that there is something wrong with you. Sometimes it's just the firm.

jesus christ that's terrifying. i accepted a v5 instead of a nlj firm with a more collegial culture and am very afraid of a no/cold-offer.

Anonymous User wrote:I am not sure whether this was the case this year, but DPW and Paul Weiss have been known to give cold offers in past years.

Shit.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I am not sure whether this was the case this year, but DPW and Paul Weiss have been known to give cold offers in past years.

Shit.

Whatever, I'd venture a guess that pretty much every firm with consistent 100% offer rates year over year does this. It's not as if they're cold offering massive portions of the class. In pretty much every class of 50-100 people there will be 1 or 2 that either do truly substandard work or are habitually offensive/awkward/work inappropriate. Some firms are upfront and no-offer these people, other choose to handle it through cold offers.

imchuckbass58 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I am not sure whether this was the case this year, but DPW and Paul Weiss have been known to give cold offers in past years.

Shit.

Whatever, I'd venture a guess that pretty much every firm with consistent 100% offer rates year over year does this. It's not as if they're cold offering massive portions of the class. In pretty much every class of 50-100 people there will be 1 or 2 that either do truly substandard work or are habitually offensive/awkward/work inappropriate. Some firms are upfront and no-offer these people, other choose to handle it through cold offers.

+1. We're in the "no-offer" category because someone decided that cold offers are unethical. But I frankly don't know which is better / worse.

itbdvorm wrote:

imchuckbass58 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I am not sure whether this was the case this year, but DPW and Paul Weiss have been known to give cold offers in past years.

Shit.

Whatever, I'd venture a guess that pretty much every firm with consistent 100% offer rates year over year does this. It's not as if they're cold offering massive portions of the class. In pretty much every class of 50-100 people there will be 1 or 2 that either do truly substandard work or are habitually offensive/awkward/work inappropriate. Some firms are upfront and no-offer these people, other choose to handle it through cold offers.

+1. We're in the "no-offer" category because someone decided that cold offers are unethical. But I frankly don't know which is better / worse.

so again - if you're diligent about your work and personable with other SAs, associates, and partners, any cause to be worried? i'm going to try to keep grades up so that they dont need to make a consideration for that but otherwise...

itbdvorm wrote:

imchuckbass58 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I am not sure whether this was the case this year, but DPW and Paul Weiss have been known to give cold offers in past years.

Shit.

Whatever, I'd venture a guess that pretty much every firm with consistent 100% offer rates year over year does this. It's not as if they're cold offering massive portions of the class. In pretty much every class of 50-100 people there will be 1 or 2 that either do truly substandard work or are habitually offensive/awkward/work inappropriate. Some firms are upfront and no-offer these people, other choose to handle it through cold offers.

+1. We're in the "no-offer" category because someone decided that cold offers are unethical. But I frankly don't know which is better / worse.

And I've read on this board that Skadden has done it, and S&C, and pretty much every firm with a hundred person summer class. I don't think the fact that 1 or 2 people got cold-offered in the past is any indication that the firm is "known" or not known for cold offering. Look at the recruiting process--you get 20 minutes in a room with a screening partner and a combined 40 minutes with two more partners at cbs. In that 60-minute span the people who matter have to make a decision about whether or not they want to work with you for the next few years. Obviously no firm is going to be 100% correct all the time. In fact, most will give you the benefit of the doubt if you aren't up to par over the summer--but there can certainly be a few outliers that are just so far below expectations that there's no way the firm can extend them an offer to return full time.

Don't read into this so much, it's a bigger concern for the firms giving cold offers or no offers en masse, but 1 or 2 a year doesn't mean squat.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I am not sure whether this was the case this year, but DPW and Paul Weiss have been known to give cold offers in past years.

Shit.

At least at DPW, you have to do something pretty heroic to get cold-offered. The story I heard was a girl who went to a foreign office and started skipping work to go sightseeing.

itbdvorm wrote:

imchuckbass58 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I am not sure whether this was the case this year, but DPW and Paul Weiss have been known to give cold offers in past years.

Shit.

Whatever, I'd venture a guess that pretty much every firm with consistent 100% offer rates year over year does this. It's not as if they're cold offering massive portions of the class. In pretty much every class of 50-100 people there will be 1 or 2 that either do truly substandard work or are habitually offensive/awkward/work inappropriate. Some firms are upfront and no-offer these people, other choose to handle it through cold offers.

+1. We're in the "no-offer" category because someone decided that cold offers are unethical. But I frankly don't know which is better / worse.

If you get no offer because you did something like piss off an influential partner, then you'd much rather have a cold offer for 3L OCI than a no-offer.