3L Employment Prospects Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:13 pm

I have an offer for a 2L SA position with a reputable national firm (v50). However, I'm not that excited about the prospects (lack of a certain practice area I wanted to explore / questioning choice of market). If I elect to look for employment as a 3L, what are my prospects (assume grades well above median at CCN)

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:16 pm

I'm interested in this too. It looks like I might be ending up at a V20 NYC firm that I'm not too excited about working for. I had multiple V10/15 callbacks but they didn't really go anywhere. How successful have people been at "trading up" during 3L OCI? Also assume grades at CCN that got me in the door at at least one V5, but didn't get turned into an offer.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:13 am

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:17 am

also interested. and what if I get a fed district clerkship - how does this change things?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:22 am

Yep. Same here. At a v10 but in a market I don't hope to end up in...I will likely do 3L OCI once I've raised my grades and secured an offer from my 2L SA.

3L OCI is mostly for people like us who worked in biglaw their 2L summer, but want a change. 3L OCI isn't really for people without a 2L offer.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:28 am

I am not really sure that is an accurate description of 3L oci. The issue is that few people have any shot at 3L oci unless they had the numbers to get a 2L summer. However, for those people who do have the numbers, it does not seem that having summered is a major factor. I say this as a non-summering 3L who has 4 CBs, which is certainly on the high end for 3L, even thought it is quite low by 2L standards.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am not really sure that is an accurate description of 3L oci. The issue is that few people have any shot at 3L oci unless they had the numbers to get a 2L summer. However, for those people who do have the numbers, it does not seem that having summered is a major factor. I say this as a non-summering 3L who has 4 CBs, which is certainly on the high end for 3L, even thought it is quite low by 2L standards.

Then you are the exception rather than the rule.

I had lunch with a v10 partner just yesterday and he made it very clear that not having a biglaw job 2L summer is generally held against you for 3L OCI. If you had the grades, but you sucked at interviewing and couldn't convert any CBs into an offer, you are facing an uphill battle.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:41 am

Well, I sucked at interviewing last year, hence my lack of a summer. But my ratio of screeners to CBs has been at or above average this year, so no, I do not think that is correct.
I would put it like this though, the rule is more a function of the simple fact that most people who have the numbers and are not socially retarded get summer positions. Therefore, the number of persons who are "exceptions" is very small, but it is that is more a function of the selection effect of summering, rather that its resume building, though that is certainly not a non-issue. Additionally, the one thing that 3L oci is clearly not for is people who summered and did not get offers since that shows that a firm evaluate your work and personality for 8-12 weeks and one or both is lacking.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:49 am

I also didn't summer and have had 3 CBs, all with major national firms. The V10 firms seemed to be looking for people who were "trading up" (those douchebags) although exceptional grades might get you a callback with a V10 firm if you haven't summered.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:Well, I sucked at interviewing last year, hence my lack of a summer. But my ratio of screeners to CBs has been at or above average this year, so no, I do not think that is correct.
I would put it like this though, the rule is more a function of the simple fact that most people who have the numbers and are not socially retarded get summer positions. Therefore, the number of persons who are "exceptions" is very small, but it is that is more a function of the selection effect of summering, rather that its resume building, though that is certainly not a non-issue. Additionally, the one thing that 3L oci is clearly not for is people who summered and did not get offers since that shows that a firm evaluate your work and personality for 8-12 weeks and one or both is lacking.

I think we're saying the same thing, but you just took it further. I said that if you had the grades but your interview skills must have sucked, you probably did not receive a 2L SA. You said that your interviewing skills actually did suck, and found little success. Apparently, you ameliorated your interpersonal skills and was more successful as a 3L.

I agree that people will probably not find much success at 3L OCI if they summered as a 2L, but failed to receive a perma-offer. But hopefully the firm gives cold offers to help in the job search.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:03 am

How available is "trading down"? I will be summering at a V5 in NYC but completely struck out in DC. Would vastly prefer to be in DC--feasible?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:How available is "trading down"? I will be summering at a V5 in NYC but completely struck out in DC. Would vastly prefer to be in DC--feasible?

it seems to me like most of the 3L hiring is in NYC. i have very good grades at my CCN and had a 2L SA. i applied to firms for a post-grad position in two major non-NYC markets... got one callback in DC, and that's it.

20121109 · Post by **20121109** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:How available is "trading down"? I will be summering at a V5 in NYC but completely struck out in DC. Would vastly prefer to be in DC--feasible?

If you're interested in litigation and by trading down to DC you mean a firm like Williams & Connolly or Covington, you're certainly not trading down. If anything, trading up. Vault rankings are only really applicable to NYC corporate work.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:17 pm

I too received callbacks (5) as a 3L...=p

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:18 pm

I'm the same poster as above. I forgot to add that I did not summer with a firm. I worked for the government.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:19 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How available is "trading down"? I will be summering at a V5 in NYC but completely struck out in DC. Would vastly prefer to be in DC--feasible?
If you're interested in litigation and by trading down to DC you mean a firm like Williams & Connolly or Covington, you're certainly not trading down. If anything, trading up. Vault rankings are only really applicable to NYC corporate work.

No- not thinking about trading to W&C or Cov. Maybe a firm like Sidley or GDC or Wilmer. Struck out with those firms @ OCI (got 1 CB of those 3).

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:31 pm

To the 3L above with 5 CBs congrats, have you received any offers yet/done all of your callbacks? I am the annon above with 4 CBs. Seems like a douchey way to identify myself, but is all I got.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:56 pm

No. I had 3 of them last week, and I'm seriously having panic attacks waiting. This is unbelievably stressful. I'm wondering if 3L offers might take longer for some firms? I haven't received any rejections yet, but I'm pretty sure about two of them since it's been a while.

How about you?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:No. I had 3 of them last week, and I'm seriously having panic attacks waiting. This is unbelievably stressful. I'm wondering if 3L offers might take longer for some firms? I haven't received any rejections yet, but I'm pretty sure about two of them since it's been a while.

How about you?

what market?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:09 pm

NY(3)/CA(2)

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:11 pm

I have only done two, one of them was while ago, the other was very recent. So I guess I will just have to wait and see

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:NY(3)/CA(2)

good luck!

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:45 pm

Anyone know whether the prestige (vault or whatever) of the 2L SA Firm matter for 3L EIP purposes if that were to happen? Or do firms look at you the same way as long as you end up at the reputable firm for your 2L Summer?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know whether the prestige (vault or whatever) of the 2L SA Firm matter for 3L EIP purposes if that were to happen? Or do firms look at you the same way as long as you end up at the reputable firm for your 2L Summer?

very interested in this

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:09 pm

i wouldn't think so, as long as it's a recognizable name. but the thing is that kids with "more prestigious" 2L SAs are probably more likely to have better grades and/or relevant work experience or other hooks which got them that more prestigous SA to begin with. this will prob help them in 3l recruiting.

when you get out of the v15 or so, rank doesn't really matter as much. the top 10 firms or so dominate corporate work and have excellent name recognition in several of their depts. the remainder of the v100 tend to be known for more niche practicies, like employment, project finance, litigation, etc, so it's hard to compare a v60 with say a v30. a good example i think is cahill, which is great for high yield debt and has a pretty good rep for its corporate work in general. i wouln't say someone who came from a v30 has a huge edge over someone who summered at cahill (v60).

partners don't logon to vault everyday like law students and memorize the precise ranking of every firm. they just have general ideas of what the "good" firms are and the "less good firms," keeping in mind some of the less prestigious firms might be all stars in one particular practice area

3L Employment Prospects Forum

3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Register for access!

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Register now!

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Register now, it's still FREE!

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Re: 3L Employment Prospects

Seriously? What are you waiting for?