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Calling all New Yorkers/Associates for advice.

Where would you recommend that young associates should live? Not short term during an SA but while working at a firm when starting? Keeping in mind that most firms are in Midtown (East)/others in the Financial District and the $160k starting salary. If a 1 bed or studio apartment, what is desirable? Downtown? UES? UWS? Do you need to move to Brooklyn/Queens?

Anonymous User wrote:Calling all New Yorkers/Associates for advice.

Where would you recommend that young associates should live? Not short term during an SA but while working at a firm when starting? Keeping in mind that most firms are in Midtown (East)/others in the Financial District and the $160k starting salary. If a 1 bed or studio apartment, what is desirable? Downtown? UES? UWS? Do you need to move to Brooklyn/Queens?

I'm thinking about Brooklyn, somewhere for around $1,500/mo. I talked to junior associate yesterday, though, who lives in midtown, three blocks from his firm. He said it's much cheaper than you expect because most young professionals hate living in midtown and being unable to get away from work.

It may "suck" being in the bubble of midtown, but the benefits of not having to commute from another borough, IMHO, outweigh that. I'd imagine many of the business/social functions will be in the Manhattan area, and having to go back and forth to Brooklyn/Queens seems like it could get aggravating after a while. Plus, if you will be working as much as everybody says, do you want to waste all that time commuting?

Yeah, is midtown decent to live in?

EDIT: also the cost of gyms in NY is insane. Is it cheaper to get a building with a gym?

Anonymous User wrote:Yeah, is midtown decent to live in?

no. it is really boring and touristy. live in UWS or the village or chelsea or somewhere else with character/restaurants/nightlife.

This is completely a matter of your personal preferences. You can find a studio or one-bedroom apartment you can "afford" (i.e., a landlord will rent to you) basically anywhere in the city on $160k. If you'd like to spend less, then Astoria, LIC, Sunnyside are the best parts of Queens both for access to Midtown and stuff to do. If you work downtown, then Brooklyn becomes a very reasonable option. You can get from Brooklyn Heights to Wall Street in under ten minutes. I've spoken to a number of associates at Midtown firms that live in Brooklyn, too. A lot seem to live in the new high rise rentals in the downtown Brooklyn and Fort Greene area, and you can get to Times Square, 6th Ave, Park Ave, etc. in half an hour from there as well.

East Midtown (say, East 50s from 2nd Avenue over) is pretty residential but very old and stodgy feeling. Easy commute, though, and you could get a cab and be at a bar downtown in ten minutes. The west side, like around 9th Avenue in Hell's Kitchen, is a little more happening, but it kind of feels like a circus being that close to the Port Authority, Times Square, etc.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:This is completely a matter of your personal preferences. You can find a studio or one-bedroom apartment you can "afford" (i.e., a landlord will rent to you) basically anywhere in the city on $160k. If you'd like to spend less, then Astoria, LIC, Sunnyside are the best parts of Queens both for access to Midtown and stuff to do. If you work downtown, then Brooklyn becomes a very reasonable option. You can get from Brooklyn Heights to Wall Street in under ten minutes. I've spoken to a number of associates at Midtown firms that live in Brooklyn, too. A lot seem to live in the new high rise rentals in the downtown Brooklyn and Fort Greene area, and you can get to Times Square, 6th Ave, Park Ave, etc. in half an hour from there as well.

East Midtown (say, East 50s from 2nd Avenue over) is pretty residential but very old and stodgy feeling. Easy commute, though, and you could get a cab and be at a bar downtown in ten minutes. The west side, like around 9th Avenue in Hell's Kitchen, is a little more happening, but it kind of feels like a circus being that close to the Port Authority, Times Square, etc.

What do you mean by afford? From what I've seen, if you want to live in Manhattan in a single bedroom you are going to pay at least 2600 a month, and that's being generous. If you have 200K+ debt how is that affordable?

Anonymous User wrote:

dixiecupdrinking wrote:This is completely a matter of your personal preferences. You can find a studio or one-bedroom apartment you can "afford" (i.e., a landlord will rent to you) basically anywhere in the city on $160k. If you'd like to spend less, then Astoria, LIC, Sunnyside are the best parts of Queens both for access to Midtown and stuff to do. If you work downtown, then Brooklyn becomes a very reasonable option. You can get from Brooklyn Heights to Wall Street in under ten minutes. I've spoken to a number of associates at Midtown firms that live in Brooklyn, too. A lot seem to live in the new high rise rentals in the downtown Brooklyn and Fort Greene area, and you can get to Times Square, 6th Ave, Park Ave, etc. in half an hour from there as well.

East Midtown (say, East 50s from 2nd Avenue over) is pretty residential but very old and stodgy feeling. Easy commute, though, and you could get a cab and be at a bar downtown in ten minutes. The west side, like around 9th Avenue in Hell's Kitchen, is a little more happening, but it kind of feels like a circus being that close to the Port Authority, Times Square, etc.

What do you mean by afford? From what I've seen, if you want to live in Manhattan in a single bedroom you are going to pay at least 2600 a month, and that's being generous. If you have 200K+ debt how is that affordable?

Say you take home $8k a month after taxes on $160k. Say payments on $200k debt are $2,500 a month. Say you pay $2,500 for your apartment. That leaves you with $3,000 a month in income to spend on everything else. If that's not affordable, you're doing something wrong. But I can see why someone would want to reduce their rent costs, whether to pay down loans more quickly, invest, whatever, and many people just don't actually want to live in Manhattan, hence, it's a matter of personal preference.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

dixiecupdrinking wrote:This is completely a matter of your personal preferences. You can find a studio or one-bedroom apartment you can "afford" (i.e., a landlord will rent to you) basically anywhere in the city on $160k. If you'd like to spend less, then Astoria, LIC, Sunnyside are the best parts of Queens both for access to Midtown and stuff to do. If you work downtown, then Brooklyn becomes a very reasonable option. You can get from Brooklyn Heights to Wall Street in under ten minutes. I've spoken to a number of associates at Midtown firms that live in Brooklyn, too. A lot seem to live in the new high rise rentals in the downtown Brooklyn and Fort Greene area, and you can get to Times Square, 6th Ave, Park Ave, etc. in half an hour from there as well.

East Midtown (say, East 50s from 2nd Avenue over) is pretty residential but very old and stodgy feeling. Easy commute, though, and you could get a cab and be at a bar downtown in ten minutes. The west side, like around 9th Avenue in Hell's Kitchen, is a little more happening, but it kind of feels like a circus being that close to the Port Authority, Times Square, etc.

What do you mean by afford? From what I've seen, if you want to live in Manhattan in a single bedroom you are going to pay at least 2600 a month, and that's being generous. If you have 200K+ debt how is that affordable?

Say you take home $8k a month after taxes on $160k. Say payments on $200k debt are $2,500 a month. Say you pay $2,500 for your apartment. That leaves you with $3,000 a month in income to spend on everything else. If that's not affordable, you're doing something wrong. But I can see why someone would want to reduce their rent costs, whether to pay down loans more quickly, invest, whatever, and many people just don't actually want to live in Manhattan, hence, it's a matter of personal preference.

If you're living in Manhattan, rent is really going to be more like $2800 a month for a one bedroom, add in utilities and you're looking at $3100 a month. Add in loan payments and you're looking at $5600 a month gone from your income.

Yeah, depends on the firm. Midtown east is pretty difficult to get to from Upper West Side (UWS) on the subway. I like midtown east (probably above 50th) for proximity to work, relatively nice apartments, and good availability of things to do. UWS is affordable for Manhattan, and offers reasonably decent access to downtown/west side firms (cravath, skadden, S&C, Cleary, Ropes, Willkie, Milbank). Midtown East, UWS, and UES around 1st/york are generally more affordable than the other places to live in the city.

Here's how I think of neighborhoods (focus on manhattan, a little bit of brooklyn, queens, Jersey. Leaving out Bronx/Staten Island/Long Island/Westchester, since I don't go there or know anything about them)

Brooklyn:

Williamsburg: difficult to get to from most firms, full of hipsters
Brooklyn Heights: accessible for east and west side firms (4-5-6, 1-2-3), families, expensive (for brooklyn)
Other Brooklyn areas: Generally cheaper, depending on area. I could be wrong, but I've heard good things about DUMBO, Carroll Gardens, Boerum Hill, Park Slope, Greenpoint. All may have accessibility concerns.

Manhattan:

Financial District: bro-ish, accessible, high rises (so dollar-value expensive, but lots of amenities)
Battery Park City: High rises, cheaper than other financial district, feels like a neighborhood, but requires a long walk to the subway
Tribeca, Soho: $$$
Chinatown: Cheap, accessible, likely to have rats in your building. Also, canal street is a major negative (crowded, touristy, dirty, too much kitsch being sold on the street).
Lower East Side: Also full of hipsters. Public transportation is difficult. Rapidly gentrifying and getting expensive (hipster influence).
East Village: NYU hangout. Lots of bars, some puke in the morning. Relatively affordable, but usually walkups.
Central/West Village: expensive, trendy. 80 Marc Jacobs stores on Bleecker, people to match.
Union Square: Meh. Has a Whole Foods and Trader joes. Transitional area between NYU and the Gramercy/Flatiron/Chelsea areas. Also, Union Square is where many protests/street performers gather. Positive or negative, depending on outlook.
Meatpacking district: $$$, and also dirty.
Gramercy/Flatiron/Chelsea: Fairly expensive. Gramercy is the most genteel, transitioning gradually through corporate/shopping stores around 5th ave, and into chelsea which has a sizeable gay community.
Stuyvesant Town/Peter Cooper Village: Lots of bros, but fairly affordable.
Kips Bay/Murray Hill: lots of bars; this is where the stuy town/peter cooper people come to hang out. Not sure what that means? http://www.toniceast.com/media/tonic.html
Midtown: Lots of office buildings. Probably don't want to live here. Boundaries are a little bit uncertain; may include Herald Square area up to 59th street. Lots of businesses, lots of tourists. Some ok apartments to the west side between 23rd up to 50th, depending on what you're looking for, maybe on the east side as well.
Midtown East: Residential again, good for east side law firms, not great for west side, see above for more.
Hell's Kitchen: Good for west side law firms (Cravath, etc.). Excellent food. Suffers somewhat by being on the edge of the theatre/times square areas.
Lincoln Center/Midtown West: Some Trump buildings here; may have nice apartments. Growing in price.
Upper West Side: comparatively reasonably priced, decent transportation around 2-3 express stops. "neighborhood-y" feel (though not quite as much as Brooklyn and West Village).
Upper East Side: More expensive, more upper crust. 4-5-6 is the most crowded train in the city. Good for east side law firms.
Harlem: Gentrifying pretty rapidly. Pretty good food. Very transitional (danger levels change by street/avenue).

Queens:

Long Island City/Astoria: Affordable. Pretty good train service through east side law firms and, to a lesser degree, west side law firms (follow the N-Q-R).

Jersey:

Hoboken: Cool and young. Can be hard to get to, especially if you live far from the PATH train. (Also, keep in mind that PATH service is limited and requires transferring to the subway, and also, if you get out at WTC, has a nasty walk along Vesey street)
Jersey City: Lots of high rises and good views. Also cheap. The price? Have to live in Jersey, and also can be hard to get to (especially for midtown firms).

It really depends on your preferences. Firms downtown are nice because you can commute from Brooklyn Heights, etc, very quickly on the 1/2/3. If you're in Midtown east, your options are more limited. Long Island City is a quick trip on the 7, but it's really industrial. I did the UWS commute this summer, and it's painful. Down on the 1/2/3 and over on the 7. Not too long (~30 min) but just miserable with the heat/humidity and being in a suit. The area around GCT is actually quite affordable if you go east, though it's not a "hip" neighborhood. There are some nice 1980s high-rises for $4k for a 2BR/2BA, which with a roommate gives you a reasonable $2k/mo. The UES is also a good option, and surprisingly cheap. There are express busses that go down 1st/2nd ave. They're really nice because there is usually space to sit down, they're air-conditioned, and you don't have to wait in a hot sweaty subway station.

Honestly, I'd consider Westchester on the Metro North before I'd do the Brooklyn -> Midtown East commute. White Plains is a 30 minute commute on a comfortable Metro North train straight into GCT. Unlike the subway, you can actually take advantage of that time since you can sit down.

Anonymous User wrote:

dixiecupdrinking wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

dixiecupdrinking wrote:This is completely a matter of your personal preferences. You can find a studio or one-bedroom apartment you can "afford" (i.e., a landlord will rent to you) basically anywhere in the city on $160k. If you'd like to spend less, then Astoria, LIC, Sunnyside are the best parts of Queens both for access to Midtown and stuff to do. If you work downtown, then Brooklyn becomes a very reasonable option. You can get from Brooklyn Heights to Wall Street in under ten minutes. I've spoken to a number of associates at Midtown firms that live in Brooklyn, too. A lot seem to live in the new high rise rentals in the downtown Brooklyn and Fort Greene area, and you can get to Times Square, 6th Ave, Park Ave, etc. in half an hour from there as well.

East Midtown (say, East 50s from 2nd Avenue over) is pretty residential but very old and stodgy feeling. Easy commute, though, and you could get a cab and be at a bar downtown in ten minutes. The west side, like around 9th Avenue in Hell's Kitchen, is a little more happening, but it kind of feels like a circus being that close to the Port Authority, Times Square, etc.

What do you mean by afford? From what I've seen, if you want to live in Manhattan in a single bedroom you are going to pay at least 2600 a month, and that's being generous. If you have 200K+ debt how is that affordable?

Say you take home $8k a month after taxes on $160k. Say payments on $200k debt are $2,500 a month. Say you pay $2,500 for your apartment. That leaves you with $3,000 a month in income to spend on everything else. If that's not affordable, you're doing something wrong. But I can see why someone would want to reduce their rent costs, whether to pay down loans more quickly, invest, whatever, and many people just don't actually want to live in Manhattan, hence, it's a matter of personal preference.

If you're living in Manhattan, rent is really going to be more like $2800 a month for a one bedroom, add in utilities and you're looking at $3100 a month.

So move to the other places I mentioned.

rayiner wrote:It really depends on your preferences. Firms downtown are nice because you can commute from Brooklyn Heights, etc, very quickly on the 1/2/3. If you're in Midtown east, your options are more limited. Long Island City is a quick trip on the 7, but it's really industrial. I did the UWS commute this summer, and it's painful. Down on the 1/2/3 and over on the 7. Not too long (~30 min) but just miserable with the heat/humidity and being in a suit. The area around GCT is actually quite affordable if you go east, though it's not a "hip" neighborhood. There are some nice 1980s high-rises for $4k for a 2BR/2BA, which with a roommate gives you a reasonable $2k/mo. The UES is also a good option, and surprisingly cheap. There are express busses that go down 1st/2nd ave. They're really nice because there is usually space to sit down, they're air-conditioned, and you don't have to wait in a hot sweaty subway station.

Honestly, I'd consider Westchester on the Metro North before I'd do the Brooklyn -> Midtown East commute. White Plains is a 30 minute commute on a comfortable Metro North train straight into GCT. Unlike the subway, you can actually take advantage of that time since you can sit down.

Christ only in NYC do people making six figures have to think about living with a roommate...the COL is really getting out of hand.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:So move to the other places I mentioned.

The parts of Brooklyn with a reasonable Manhattan commute are the same price.

Anonymous User wrote:

rayiner wrote:It really depends on your preferences. Firms downtown are nice because you can commute from Brooklyn Heights, etc, very quickly on the 1/2/3. If you're in Midtown east, your options are more limited. Long Island City is a quick trip on the 7, but it's really industrial. I did the UWS commute this summer, and it's painful. Down on the 1/2/3 and over on the 7. Not too long (~30 min) but just miserable with the heat/humidity and being in a suit. The area around GCT is actually quite affordable if you go east, though it's not a "hip" neighborhood. There are some nice 1980s high-rises for $4k for a 2BR/2BA, which with a roommate gives you a reasonable $2k/mo. The UES is also a good option, and surprisingly cheap. There are express busses that go down 1st/2nd ave. They're really nice because there is usually space to sit down, they're air-conditioned, and you don't have to wait in a hot sweaty subway station.

Honestly, I'd consider Westchester on the Metro North before I'd do the Brooklyn -> Midtown East commute. White Plains is a 30 minute commute on a comfortable Metro North train straight into GCT. Unlike the subway, you can actually take advantage of that time since you can sit down.

Christ only in NYC do people making six figures have to think about living with a roommate...the COL is really getting out of hand.

It is what it is.

Here's a good example: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/766767 ... e-new-york

Condo high-rise (i.e.: professionally cleaned and maintained), not too old (1985), reasonably big (1000 sq-ft), $4000/mo (i.e.: $2000/mo per person). The M101/102/103, which is rarely full, will take you down Lexington to, say, Kirkland's office at 53rd in less than 10 min.

--LinkRemoved--
This place is one stop to Manhattan and a block from the subway.

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Brooklyn Heights.

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Brooklyn Heights.

--LinkRemoved--
Brooklyn Heights.

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Brooklyn Heights. (Small, but cheap.)

It's a little exhausting to hear people complain about how expensive NYC is. It is worse than most other cities but 8 million people manage it and most of them don't work in big law firms. You will not be out on the street making $160,000.

Anonymous User wrote:Christ only in NYC do people making six figures have to think about living with a roommate...the COL is really getting out of hand.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/nfb/2592133728.html
This place is one stop to Manhattan and a block from the subway.

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Brooklyn Heights.

--LinkRemoved--
Brooklyn Heights.

--LinkRemoved--
Brooklyn Heights.

--LinkRemoved--
Brooklyn Heights. (Small, but cheap.)

It's a little exhausting to hear people complain about how expensive NYC is. It is worse than most other cities but 8 million people manage it and most of them don't work in big law firms. You will not be out on the street making $160,000.

"Out on the streets" is a gross exaggeration. I was just generally wondering what kind of housing people working at NYC firms end up in. Basically they end up in rather average places, they just pay a ton of money for it. But like the guy said earlier, it is what it is.


Is this kind of thing trustworthy? Seems too good to be true.

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dixiecupdrinking wrote:http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/nfb/2592133728.html
This place is one stop to Manhattan and a block from the subway.

Walkup, radiator heat, old shitty appliances and cabinets, probably a disgusting, non-renovated bathroom, for $2450/month.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/fee/2591846067.html
Brooklyn Heights.

Ditto, plus its on the first floor.

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Brooklyn Heights.

Walkup, disgusting laundry room, but at least the bathroom is renovated.

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Brooklyn Heights.

This one is actually not bad, though the tub is old and disgusting and the bathroom tile is questionable.

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Brooklyn Heights. (Small, but cheap.)

I've had bigger walk-in closets.

It's a little exhausting to hear people complain about how expensive NYC is. It is worse than most other cities but 8 million people manage it and most of them don't work in big law firms. You will not be out on the street making $160,000.

It's not just the expense. It's the pure shit you get for the money. Old, non-renovated walkups. Nobody builds new housing because the city has regulated the industry to death. When they do, it's on heavily polluted former-industrial property like Greenpoint/Williamsburg/Long Island City. Manhattan has some of the most expensive land on the planet, yet it's full of row after row of shitty, low-density, former tenement housing walkups because it's too hard to get them torn down.

For the $2k range I'd much rather get a roommate and a nice high-rise building on the UES than schlep up from Brooklyn every day.

rayiner wrote:

dixiecupdrinking wrote:http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/nfb/2592133728.html
This place is one stop to Manhattan and a block from the subway.

Walkup, radiator heat, old shitty appliances and cabinets, probably a disgusting, non-renovated bathroom, for $2450/month.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/fee/2591846067.html
Brooklyn Heights.

Ditto, plus its on the first floor.

--LinkRemoved--
Brooklyn Heights.

Walkup, disgusting laundry room, but at least the bathroom is renovated.

--LinkRemoved--
Brooklyn Heights.

This one is actually not bad, though the tub is old and disgusting and the bathroom tile is questionable.

--LinkRemoved--
Brooklyn Heights. (Small, but cheap.)

I've had bigger walk-in closets.

It's a little exhausting to hear people complain about how expensive NYC is. It is worse than most other cities but 8 million people manage it and most of them don't work in big law firms. You will not be out on the street making $160,000.

It's not just the expense. It's the pure shit you get for the money. Old, non-renovated walkups. Nobody builds new housing because the city has regulated the industry to death. When they do, it's on heavily polluted former-industrial property like Greenpoint/Williamsburg/Long Island City. Manhattan has some of the most expensive land on the planet, yet it's full of row after row of shitty, low-density, former tenement housing walkups because it's too hard to get them torn down.

For the $2k range I'd much rather get a roommate and a nice high-rise building on the UES than schlep up from Brooklyn every day.

I was wondering what was up with those Brooklyn rentals he posted. When I search trustworthy websites rental prices are consistently 2700+ for one bedrooms in Manhattan or the parts of Brooklyn that are close.

Anonymous User wrote:I was wondering what was up with those Brooklyn rentals he posted. When I search trustworthy websites rental prices are consistently 2700+ for one bedrooms in Manhattan or the parts of Brooklyn that are close.

The NYC rental market is very complicated and difficult to navigate for outsiders. I had two rental experiences this past summer, both from craigslist, and they were both miserable. The places never look like they do in the pictures and there can be all sorts of hidden pitfalls. My office mate's east village apartment this summer got infested by rat mites...

IMHO, especially at first, it's worth it to spend a bit more for a high-rise where the building management can afford to keep it professionally cleaned and maintained.

It all depends on your standards, I suppose. I would happily live in any of the places I posted. Of course, I wish they were cheaper, too. Depending on what you mean by "trustworthy websites," you may be looking at places that only deal with large, professionally managed buildings. That certainly has its appeal, both in terms of amenities and knowing what you're getting yourself into, but you do pay extra for the luxury. Craigslist is pretty much the gold standard for most NYC apartment hunters (scammy fake ads and all), so if you're looking elsewhere you're already into premium territory.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:It all depends on your standards, I suppose. I would happily live in any of the places I posted.

My parents didn't struggle to bring me to the US from Bangladesh so I could make $160k and live like I was still in a third world country.

rayiner wrote:

dixiecupdrinking wrote:It all depends on your standards, I suppose. I would happily live in any of the places I posted.

My parents didn't struggle to bring me to the US from Bangladesh so I could make $160k and live like I was still in a third world country.

You're so melodramatic about NYC housing. Relax, brother.

5ky wrote:

rayiner wrote:

dixiecupdrinking wrote:It all depends on your standards, I suppose. I would happily live in any of the places I posted.

My parents didn't struggle to bring me to the US from Bangladesh so I could make $160k and live like I was still in a third world country.

You're so melodramatic about NYC housing. Relax, brother.

I don't think you have access to the same quality of cousine and variety of cultural experiences anywhere but NYC. You're paying for location more than you're actual residence. 8 million people make it work.