200k debt, 100k salary. Drop out? Forum

[birdlaw117]

2,500 gives you enough $$$ to afford NFL Sunday Ticket. This is not poor-ish.

This certainly depends on where you live and if you are single or have a family. 2500 in NYC with 2 kids and a stay at home wife is definitely poor-ish and you won't be able to afford things like Sunday Ticket.

Also, as I pointed out above the monthly take home after taxes and loan repayment is just over 3000 a month, not 2500.

True. But if you're married, your take-home amount is higher, so we wouldn't really be talking about $2500 anymore. But yeah, your above analysis looked solid to me.

[Anonymous User]

Do you understand what I would do for a $100k job? Enjoy it.

[birdlaw117]

Do you understand what I would do for a $100k job? Enjoy it.

Work 60-70 hours a week?

[vanwinkle]

It may be a bit clearer to put a post taxes number on it - if you earn 100K, you won't take home 8,333 but rather 5,000/month after taxes. Take away the 2426 for student loans, and you have 2574 a month to live on. To make this budget work (unless you are really in a secondary market where you can get a one bedroom for 500-700) you will need to be in a roommate situation, keep rent/utilities under 1000 a month. You will not only live with a roommate, but without a lot of fun money. If the firm gives big raises, then maybe that will only be for a few years, but if not, it will be a very rough go, like living poorish-but-functional. I say this as someone who recently made somewhat over 100K and was paying down debt at a similar rate. I managed to get to a living budget of 2,500 a month based on what I said above. It kind of sucked, but was survivable.

1) OP already made clear they're in a secondary market with a substantially lower COL than NYC. But even in NYC, you could do this without roommates. You just have to live outside of Manhattan. I know someone living in Queens, in a remarkably large studio, for $1k/mo. They're blocks from a subway line and less than 20 minutes from midtown Manhattan, and it's a nice neighborhood. Know someone else doing the same thing in Brooklyn. Nice neighborhood. I'd know; I sublet from him for the summer.

2) In a city with "substantially" lower COL than NYC, you can likely find nice 1BR apartments for well under $1k/mo.

3) Good god, what is wrong with people? $2500/mo post-tax is "very rough" and "poorish"? Seriously? This is the equivalent of making $40K/yr (seriously, using IL as an example, $39,780 pre-tax works out to $2500/mo. post-tax). Plenty of people manage to live comfortably on that level of net income, and they're not anticipating a bigger payday a decade down the road. Hell, I know people working and living in NYC making that much, and they're not poor. They have to live smartly, but they're comfortable and enjoying themselves.

[Eco]

100k is an amazing salary. The 200k debt can be paid like a mortgage on a 10 year or 30 year basis. Why would you drop out?

[minnbills]

If I knew I had 100k guaranteed post law-school I wouldn't hesitate to drop 200k on school. Not for a moment.

[Anonymous User]

It may be a bit clearer to put a post taxes number on it - if you earn 100K, you won't take home 8,333 but rather 5,000/month after taxes. Take away the 2426 for student loans, and you have 2574 a month to live on. To make this budget work (unless you are really in a secondary market where you can get a one bedroom for 500-700) you will need to be in a roommate situation, keep rent/utilities under 1000 a month. You will not only live with a roommate, but without a lot of fun money. If the firm gives big raises, then maybe that will only be for a few years, but if not, it will be a very rough go, like living poorish-but-functional. I say this as someone who recently made somewhat over 100K and was paying down debt at a similar rate. I managed to get to a living budget of 2,500 a month based on what I said above. It kind of sucked, but was survivable.

1) OP already made clear they're in a secondary market with a substantially lower COL than NYC. But even in NYC, you could do this without roommates. You just have to live outside of Manhattan. I know someone living in Queens, in a remarkably large studio, for $1k/mo. They're blocks from a subway line and less than 20 minutes from midtown Manhattan, and it's a nice neighborhood. Know someone else doing the same thing in Brooklyn. Nice neighborhood. I'd know; I sublet from him for the summer.

2) In a city with "substantially" lower COL than NYC, you can likely find nice 1BR apartments for well under $1k/mo.

3) Good god, what is wrong with people? $2500/mo post-tax is "very rough" and "poorish"? Seriously? This is the equivalent of making $40K/yr (seriously, using IL as an example, $39,780 pre-tax works out to $2500/mo. post-tax). Plenty of people manage to live comfortably on that level of net income, and they're not anticipating a bigger payday a decade down the road. Hell, I know people working and living in NYC making that much, and they're not poor. They have to live smartly, but they're comfortable and enjoying themselves.

Do the math of complete budget sometime. $2500 is doable, but if you read the note about it depending on raises, you'd get what I said - the studio situation you point out in NY for about $1000 is fine, for a year, a couple, but not for 10. And yes, poorish, living in a studio is not living large or even as preferred for most, it's getting by, and there won't be much discretionary fun money left over, after suits, dry cleaning, transport, food, etc. If there are sizeable raises possible, then sucking it up for a few years until those provide some breathing room may be ok. But if it's 2% raises, then 10 years of that type of studio/just able to make it living will absolutely get "very rough" after a bit.

[LawWeb]

It may be a bit clearer to put a post taxes number on it - if you earn 100K, you won't take home 8,333 but rather 5,000/month after taxes. Take away the 2426 for student loans, and you have 2574 a month to live on. To make this budget work (unless you are really in a secondary market where you can get a one bedroom for 500-700) you will need to be in a roommate situation, keep rent/utilities under 1000 a month. You will not only live with a roommate, but without a lot of fun money. If the firm gives big raises, then maybe that will only be for a few years, but if not, it will be a very rough go, like living poorish-but-functional. I say this as someone who recently made somewhat over 100K and was paying down debt at a similar rate. I managed to get to a living budget of 2,500 a month based on what I said above. It kind of sucked, but was survivable.

1) OP already made clear they're in a secondary market with a substantially lower COL than NYC. But even in NYC, you could do this without roommates. You just have to live outside of Manhattan. I know someone living in Queens, in a remarkably large studio, for $1k/mo. They're blocks from a subway line and less than 20 minutes from midtown Manhattan, and it's a nice neighborhood. Know someone else doing the same thing in Brooklyn. Nice neighborhood. I'd know; I sublet from him for the summer.

2) In a city with "substantially" lower COL than NYC, you can likely find nice 1BR apartments for well under $1k/mo.

3) Good god, what is wrong with people? $2500/mo post-tax is "very rough" and "poorish"? Seriously? This is the equivalent of making $40K/yr (seriously, using IL as an example, $39,780 pre-tax works out to $2500/mo. post-tax). Plenty of people manage to live comfortably on that level of net income, and they're not anticipating a bigger payday a decade down the road. Hell, I know people working and living in NYC making that much, and they're not poor. They have to live smartly, but they're comfortable and enjoying themselves.

Do the math of complete budget sometime. $2500 is doable, but if you read the note about it depending on raises, you'd get what I said - the studio situation you point out in NY for about $1000 is fine, for a year, a couple, but not for 10. And yes, poorish, living in a studio is not living large or even as preferred for most, it's getting by, and there won't be much discretionary fun money left over, after suits, dry cleaning, transport, food, etc. If there are sizeable raises possible, then sucking it up for a few years until those provide some breathing room may be ok. But if it's 2% raises, then 10 years of that type of studio/just able to make it living will absolutely get "very rough" after a bit.

Above was obviously me, accidentally hit anonymous button...

[vanwinkle]

Do the math of complete budget sometime. $2500 is doable, but if you read the note about it depending on raises, you'd get what I said - the studio situation you point out in NY for about $1000 is fine, for a year, a couple, but not for 10. And yes, poorish, living in a studio is not living large or even as preferred for most, it's getting by, and there won't be much discretionary fun money left over, after suits, dry cleaning, transport, food, etc. If there are sizeable raises possible, then sucking it up for a few years until those provide some breathing room may be ok. But if it's 2% raises, then 10 years of that type of studio/just able to make it living will absolutely get "very rough" after a bit.

Dude, you're going to focus on the size of the studio? In NY, most people don't care about the size of their place, they care about the location and the amenities. Living in a studio isn't a big deal, everyone does it. They don't try to find a bigger place, they try to find a new studio in a cooler neighborhood. What might get tired after 10 years is living in Queens or Brooklyn when all your friends live in Manhattan. I can see that happening, sure, but having to take the subway to see people doesn't qualify you as "poor" or living "rough".

Outside of NY, you can get much more than a studio for $1k/mo.

[dr123]

OP said:

"Secondary market, (much) lower COL than NYC. Litigation. Drop out now debt would be about half. Could get a job in backup career for 70-90k. "

Why is everyone so focused on the COL in NYC. In most secondary markets you can get a pretty baller apartment for 1k, and something sufficient for like 6.

[birdlaw117]

It may be a bit clearer to put a post taxes number on it - if you earn 100K, you won't take home 8,333 but rather 5,000/month after taxes. Take away the 2426 for student loans, and you have 2574 a month to live on. To make this budget work (unless you are really in a secondary market where you can get a one bedroom for 500-700) you will need to be in a roommate situation, keep rent/utilities under 1000 a month. You will not only live with a roommate, but without a lot of fun money. If the firm gives big raises, then maybe that will only be for a few years, but if not, it will be a very rough go, like living poorish-but-functional. I say this as someone who recently made somewhat over 100K and was paying down debt at a similar rate. I managed to get to a living budget of 2,500 a month based on what I said above. It kind of sucked, but was survivable.

1) OP already made clear they're in a secondary market with a substantially lower COL than NYC. But even in NYC, you could do this without roommates. You just have to live outside of Manhattan. I know someone living in Queens, in a remarkably large studio, for $1k/mo. They're blocks from a subway line and less than 20 minutes from midtown Manhattan, and it's a nice neighborhood. Know someone else doing the same thing in Brooklyn. Nice neighborhood. I'd know; I sublet from him for the summer.

2) In a city with "substantially" lower COL than NYC, you can likely find nice 1BR apartments for well under $1k/mo.

3) Good god, what is wrong with people? $2500/mo post-tax is "very rough" and "poorish"? Seriously? This is the equivalent of making $40K/yr (seriously, using IL as an example, $39,780 pre-tax works out to $2500/mo. post-tax). Plenty of people manage to live comfortably on that level of net income, and they're not anticipating a bigger payday a decade down the road. Hell, I know people working and living in NYC making that much, and they're not poor. They have to live smartly, but they're comfortable and enjoying themselves.

Do the math of complete budget sometime. $2500 is doable, but if you read the note about it depending on raises, you'd get what I said - the studio situation you point out in NY for about $1000 is fine, for a year, a couple, but not for 10. And yes, poorish, living in a studio is not living large or even as preferred for most, it's getting by, and there won't be much discretionary fun money left over, after suits, dry cleaning, transport, food, etc. If there are sizeable raises possible, then sucking it up for a few years until those provide some breathing room may be ok. But if it's 2% raises, then 10 years of that type of studio/just able to make it living will absolutely get "very rough" after a bit.

You're really giving advice for people who are planning on having 8 kids right when they're done with lawl school? Plus, even if you do want to give advice to people having 8 kids right out of school, they wouldn't be dealing with $2500/month. They would get deductions based on their kids. Plus, people aren't even factoring in personal exemptions and other deductions when calculating the taxes. So all of these numbers are on the conservative side.

Basically what I'm saying is, don't just change the facts to make a point but fail to recognize how it affects everything else. I realize it was hyperbole, but still.

[minnbills]

Bird pretty sure he meant 10 years, not 10 people.

[birdlaw117]

Bird pretty sure he meant 10 years, not 10 people.

Oh, you're right. I read it as a couple as in husband and wife, then as a family.

Also, I second the whole thing about NY. This has clearly been about a secondary market with a much lower COL the whole time.

[minnbills]

Bird pretty sure he meant 10 years, not 10 people.

Oh, you're right. I read it as a couple as in husband and wife, then as a family.

Also, I second the whole thing about NY. This has clearly been about a secondary market with a much lower COL the whole time.

I agree with the spirit of what you said, just wanted to point that out.

[birdlaw117]

Bird pretty sure he meant 10 years, not 10 people.

Oh, you're right. I read it as a couple as in husband and wife, then as a family.

Also, I second the whole thing about NY. This has clearly been about a secondary market with a much lower COL the whole time.

I agree with the spirit of what you said, just wanted to point that out.

I appreciate it. Given my shitty RC skills, you can understand why I thought it was ridiculous... haha

[LawWeb]

Do the math of complete budget sometime. $2500 is doable, but if you read the note about it depending on raises, you'd get what I said - the studio situation you point out in NY for about $1000 is fine, for a year, a couple, but not for 10. And yes, poorish, living in a studio is not living large or even as preferred for most, it's getting by, and there won't be much discretionary fun money left over, after suits, dry cleaning, transport, food, etc. If there are sizeable raises possible, then sucking it up for a few years until those provide some breathing room may be ok. But if it's 2% raises, then 10 years of that type of studio/just able to make it living will absolutely get "very rough" after a bit.

Dude, you're going to focus on the size of the studio? In NY, most people don't care about the size of their place, they care about the location and the amenities. Living in a studio isn't a big deal, everyone does it. They don't try to find a bigger place, they try to find a new studio in a cooler neighborhood. What might get tired after 10 years is living in Queens or Brooklyn when all your friends live in Manhattan. I can see that happening, sure, but having to take the subway to see people doesn't qualify you as "poor" or living "rough".

Outside of NY, you can get much more than a studio for $1k/mo.

Maybe we're meant to be tax atty's, everytime there's a "how much will it cost/how long to pay down debt" you and I are at the numbers...

My point is generally this: it's important to flesh out the numbers. $100K sounds like a lot. It's good to get it down to the $2500/month takehome. Then, a lot of people just do general numbers, as in: Rent is $1000, that leaves $1500, sounds like plenty. The numbers really add up though:
rent 1000
electric/gas/water/sometimes sewer/trash/internet/cable/cellphone: $200ish
then transportation: if car, say lowish $200 payment (we won't discuss downpayment), then lowish insurance: 50/month, gas, 300-400/month, depending. Total 550-650/month - or alternate subway/cabs: Just to average car/other, we'll call it 500/month car/gas/or other transport.

So, now that 1000 rent is 1700 rent/untils/cell phone/internet/transportation.
That only leaves 800 for the month, 200/week, and we haven't gotten to dry cleaning/laundry, which if you want your suits not to stink isn't nothing, I got by about 25/wk=100/month.

So only 700 left before you get to food, HBAs (health and beauty of course), anything you want/need to buy (undewear/suits/furniture/a blender) - that is only about $23 a day, (or about 160/week) for food, everything you need to buy, anything you want to do like movies, etc.

Yes, you can do that. Like I said, I did this exact type budget for I think about two years. But there's not a lot of cushion, not a lot of room to buy/do stuff. Expenses come up you didn't expect, a couple/few hundred here or there. You're living so a parking ticket breaks you budget, never mind an accident. It can be done for a short while, but it's not cushy, it gets rather rough in not too long. Certainly not a big spender on dates.

So that's the general point. Not that someone dies, but don't underestimate debt or overestimate earnings. If you earn 100K and take that much debt, after basic expenses you'll be living on about $160/week to cover all food, clothes, HBAs, fun, etc. Each person can judge for themselves how they feel about that.

[dr123]

OP said:

"Secondary market, (much) lower COL than NYC. Litigation. Drop out now debt would be about half. Could get a job in backup career for 70-90k. "

Why is everyone so focused on the COL in NYC. In most secondary markets you can get a pretty baller apartment for 1k, and something sufficient for like 6.

Also, if you think its hard to live on 100k pre tax/student loans, how in the fuck did you make it through LS and UG

[Anonymous User]

So that's the general point. Not that someone dies, but don't underestimate debt or overestimate earnings. If you earn 100K and take that much debt, after basic expenses you'll be living on about $160/week to cover all food, clothes, HBAs, fun, etc. Each person can judge for themselves how they feel about that.

I can't believe 100k translates to $23/day in any universe. Is this really true? Couldn't you try to find a studio for 600-700 in this scenario, take public transit over having a car payment, and have at least $1000 a month left over?

[birdlaw117]

Do the math of complete budget sometime. $2500 is doable, but if you read the note about it depending on raises, you'd get what I said - the studio situation you point out in NY for about $1000 is fine, for a year, a couple, but not for 10. And yes, poorish, living in a studio is not living large or even as preferred for most, it's getting by, and there won't be much discretionary fun money left over, after suits, dry cleaning, transport, food, etc. If there are sizeable raises possible, then sucking it up for a few years until those provide some breathing room may be ok. But if it's 2% raises, then 10 years of that type of studio/just able to make it living will absolutely get "very rough" after a bit.

Dude, you're going to focus on the size of the studio? In NY, most people don't care about the size of their place, they care about the location and the amenities. Living in a studio isn't a big deal, everyone does it. They don't try to find a bigger place, they try to find a new studio in a cooler neighborhood. What might get tired after 10 years is living in Queens or Brooklyn when all your friends live in Manhattan. I can see that happening, sure, but having to take the subway to see people doesn't qualify you as "poor" or living "rough".

Outside of NY, you can get much more than a studio for $1k/mo.

Maybe we're meant to be tax atty's, everytime there's a "how much will it cost/how long to pay down debt" you and I are at the numbers...

My point is generally this: it's important to flesh out the numbers. $100K sounds like a lot. It's good to get it down to the $2500/month takehome. Then, a lot of people just do general numbers, as in: Rent is $1000, that leaves $1500, sounds like plenty. The numbers really add up though:
rent 1000
electric/gas/water/sometimes sewer/trash/internet/cable/cellphone: $200ish
then transportation: if car, say lowish $200 payment (we won't discuss downpayment), then lowish insurance: 50/month, gas, 300-400/month, depending. Total 550-650/month - or alternate subway/cabs: Just to average car/other, we'll call it 500/month car/gas/or other transport.

So, now that 1000 rent is 1700 rent/untils/cell phone/internet/transportation.
That only leaves 800 for the month, 200/week, and we haven't gotten to dry cleaning/laundry, which if you want your suits not to stink isn't nothing, I got by about 25/wk=100/month.

So only 700 left before you get to food, HBAs (health and beauty of course), anything you want/need to buy (undewear/suits/furniture/a blender) - that is only about $23 a day, (or about 160/week) for food, everything you need to buy, anything you want to do like movies, etc.

Yes, you can do that. Like I said, I did this exact type budget for I think about two years. But there's not a lot of cushion, not a lot of room to buy/do stuff. Expenses come up you didn't expect, a couple/few hundred here or there. You're living so a parking ticket breaks you budget, never mind an accident. It can be done for a short while, but it's not cushy, it gets rather rough in not too long. Certainly not a big spender on dates.

So that's the general point. Not that someone dies, but don't underestimate debt or overestimate earnings. If you earn 100K and take that much debt, after basic expenses you'll be living on about $160/week to cover all food, clothes, HBAs, fun, etc. Each person can judge for themselves how they feel about that.

Since you want to break it down that much and be so specific, how about you subtract the personal exemption and standard deduction when you calculate your taxes. You'll be able to squeeze some extra $ from that. K, thanks.

This is definitely an example where you're being really specific when it helps your point but really broad when it doesn't.

[LawWeb]

Since you want to break it down that much and be so specific, how about you subtract the personal exemption and standard deduction when you calculate your taxes. You'll be able to squeeze some extra $ from that. K, thanks.

This is definitely an example where you're being really specific when it helps your point but really broad when it doesn't.

[/quote]
If you read above, this tax estimate includes all of that. It comes from real world experience at that salary. After SS tax, Medicare, Fed, State, and State disabil/local etc, your portion of benefits (Health Insurance, Disability, Life, etc taken from each paycheck), this is what you'll take home, at 100K your earnings x about .60. Probably better to skip the snarkiness and work on the reading comp. (Snark yeilds snark)

[minnbills]

Wait since when will you be taxed 40% of your income? Or did I not read that right?

[birdlaw117]

Since you want to break it down that much and be so specific, how about you subtract the personal exemption and standard deduction when you calculate your taxes. You'll be able to squeeze some extra $ from that. K, thanks.

This is definitely an example where you're being really specific when it helps your point but really broad when it doesn't.

If you read above, this tax estimate includes all of that. It comes from real world experience at that salary. After SS tax, Medicare, Fed, State, and State disabil/local etc, your portion of benefits (Health Insurance, Disability, Life, etc taken from each paycheck), this is what you'll take home, at 100K your earnings x about .60. Probably better to skip the snarkiness and working on the reading comp. (Snark yeilds snark)

I'm sorry, are the words personal exemption and standard deduction included in there?

Also, don't say real world experience at that salary. It's a really big difference if you're talking about someone who's single, married with no kids, married with multiple kids. Also, if you're going to extrapolate out over 10 years, you'd probably want to start considering those latter brackets, no? But you're right, let's ignore those things and get super specific and talk about $23 per day (hardly specific at all) while being really broad on the other end.

[dr123]

If you're spending 400$/Mnth on gas, you're either doing it wrong or you have a very long commute

[birdlaw117]

http://www.calculator.net/take-home-pay ... &x=83&y=19

Just thought I would add this. I put in an 8% State Tax (which I'm not sure if any state has one that high, but I figured I'd go on the high end) and it ended up with 69k take home. It's also not taking out any extra deduction (such as for retirement).

Just thought I would mention this, but that would be roughly taking .4 times your post-standard deduction and personal exemption amount, and subtracting that from 100k.

[LawWeb]

Well, I've got reading to do, so take it all for what you will. For poster above, it is not a 40% tax rate, it is 40% total of SS tax, Meicare, Fed, State, etc and your cost of benefits (Health Insur premiums, disability insur, etc) Obviously some variation by state, but I've found it to be a good rule - below 100K you can generally use x .65 down to about 70ish.

Above was attempt to be helpful. Enjoy or dis as you will.