Drop out? Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
You're not screwed. Not saying it's easy, but you can still end up where you want to be. There's just a lot of pressure on you to keep your grades up and to practice/improve your interview skills. You're going to BE screwed if you end up in the bottom half of your T14, but if you can get 5-10% at your T14 and do everything else right (LR/journal, moot court, whatever) you should be OK... though it might not feel that way for a while.
(BTW, I struck out at 2L OCI, 3L OCI was nonexistent, and struck out at clerkships as a 3L.)
(BTW, I struck out at 2L OCI, 3L OCI was nonexistent, and struck out at clerkships as a 3L.)
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
wait so.. what are you doing now? thanks for the advice!Anonymous User wrote: (BTW, I struck out at 2L OCI, 3L OCI was nonexistent, and struck out at clerkships as a 3L.)
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MskUuuxn ... ge#t=3134s (not that I'm unsympathetic - I have nightmares about striking out in the clerkship race all the time)Anonymous User wrote:You're not screwed. Not saying it's easy, but you can still end up where you want to be. There's just a lot of pressure on you to keep your grades up and to practice/improve your interview skills. You're going to BE screwed if you end up in the bottom half of your T14, but if you can get 5-10% at your T14 and do everything else right (LR/journal, moot court, whatever) you should be OK... though it might not feel that way for a while.
(BTW, I struck out at 2L OCI, 3L OCI was nonexistent, and struck out at clerkships as a 3L.)
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
Clerkship starting next year. Still looking for something to do for the rest of this year, which doesn't sound good, but between 3L and now I've had maybe 4 clerkship interviews off-plan, 2-3 law firm screening interviews, and 1 law firm callback. A few firms also explicitly told me to ask them again when I pass the bar (results come out in November, so they'll know if they have enough new associates or if they could use one more).Anonymous User wrote:wait so.. what are you doing now? thanks for the advice!Anonymous User wrote: (BTW, I struck out at 2L OCI, 3L OCI was nonexistent, and struck out at clerkships as a 3L.)
The opportunities exist. Just work on your interviewing--I'm 99% certain that's what's been killing me; my stats on paper got me interviews and I just had a hard time turning them into offers.
- Heartford
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:02 pm
Re: Drop out?
Out of curiosity, are you able to identify what it is about your interviewing that wasn't working out?Anonymous User wrote:
The opportunities exist. Just work on your interviewing--I'm 99% certain that's what's been killing me; my stats on paper got me interviews and I just had a hard time turning them into offers.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
There have been a couple things that came out during mock interviews. For example, I've been told to smile more (not grin like a fool, but smile) and be more animated when talking generally, especially about something I'm supposed to be interested in. I'm generally too quiet and "serious" and that comes across as disinterested to the interviewer. Also, rephrasing answers so that it doesn't come across negative in any way, though this hasn't been a problem for a while now. Give answers that allow for follow-ups so the interview feels more like a conversation rather than an interrogation.Heartford wrote:Out of curiosity, are you able to identify what it is about your interviewing that wasn't working out?Anonymous User wrote:
The opportunities exist. Just work on your interviewing--I'm 99% certain that's what's been killing me; my stats on paper got me interviews and I just had a hard time turning them into offers.
Then, there are some other things that I have some idea what's going wrong but am not entirely sure of. I have a hard time following up on their answers to my questions, for example, forcing me to ask another question that was unrelated to the first one, making it more awkward than it needs to be (and might come across as being disinterested in their answer).
I also know that there are simply a variety of unknown factors at any interview, so it's not necessarily every time I don't get an offer it's because I fail. However, after as many interviews as I've had without offers, I think at least some of the above has certainly been a problem in the past.
- Heartford
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:02 pm
Re: Drop out?
Interesting and helpful. Thanks! I'm actually impressed that you're able to identify these issues and confront them head-on; it shows a lot of moxie and it's also refreshing to read someone who had a rough OCI but who isn't placing blame on the system or the firms! And sorry to the OP for the slight thread derailment.Anonymous User wrote:
There have been a couple things that came out during mock interviews. For example, I've been told to smile more (not grin like a fool, but smile) and be more animated when talking generally, especially about something I'm supposed to be interested in. I'm generally too quiet and "serious" and that comes across as disinterested to the interviewer. Also, rephrasing answers so that it doesn't come across negative in any way, though this hasn't been a problem for a while now. Give answers that allow for follow-ups so the interview feels more like a conversation rather than an interrogation.
Then, there are some other things that I have some idea what's going wrong but am not entirely sure of. I have a hard time following up on their answers to my questions, for example, forcing me to ask another question that was unrelated to the first one, making it more awkward than it needs to be (and might come across as being disinterested in their answer).
I also know that there are simply a variety of unknown factors at any interview, so it's not necessarily every time I don't get an offer it's because I fail. However, after as many interviews as I've had without offers, I think at least some of the above has certainly been a problem in the past.
Last edited by Heartford on Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
- ResolutePear
- Posts: 8599
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:07 pm
Re: Drop out?
Drop out. Doooo it. Now.
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
I think you are asking a reasonable question. It sounds like you gave up a big scholarship to go T14, and not getting anything out of OCI is probably rough. Law school is an investment. I personally assess each step of the way. If I blew 1st semester I may have bailed, depending how bad. Things went well, so I stayed on. If OCI is a wash, I'd consider whether I should bail again. Don't know that I would, but it's reasonable to ask/consider, especially with you still at such a low debt amount. I personally would be more likely to go it a semester, see what you can or can't pull out through mailings and how you do 1st semester. If you get nothing and weak grades, reconsider again. If you do well and/or a job pops up, you have an answer.
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
Don't drop out. Really. I had a terrible 1L year - awful grades both semesters and managed to get a V100 SA. Everyone told me to drop out when I posted on here. Vault 100 was out. NLJ250 was out. BS. I sold hard at OCI and interviewed my ass off and got a job. Now you've "failed" at something you thought you had all worked out. So now is the time to use personality and get yourself out there. Most people will give up so there's actually an opportunity for you.
Start mass mailing. RIGHT NOW.
Start mass mailing. RIGHT NOW.
- Shaggier1
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:57 am
Re: Drop out?
Either this or drop out. Anything in between would be foolish. I personally would go for the former, but that depends on your constitution.Don't drop out. Really. I had a terrible 1L year - awful grades both semesters and managed to get a V100 SA. Everyone told me to drop out when I posted on here. Vault 100 was out. NLJ250 was out. BS. I sold hard at OCI and interviewed my ass off and got a job. Now you've "failed" at something you thought you had all worked out. So now is the time to use personality and get yourself out there. Most people will give up so there's actually an opportunity for you.
Start mass mailing. RIGHT NOW.
Last edited by Shaggier1 on Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
Please feel free to substantiate this.Why would anyone go to Berkeley anymore? You pay more money for worse job prospects than the rest of the T10 schools.
I just went through Boalt's OCI. I have 4 P's but still got 14 CB's (5 of which were from the V10) and I have 3 offers already (1 V10 and 2 V25's). ~top 40%, non-URM, work experience.
This is anecdotal, of course. But at least I am making some effort to be credible, as opposed to those who simply regurgitate claims about Berkeley's employment prospect without providing any supporting information whatsoever.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
Previous poster here - absolutely. You have to really kill yourself for it and personality, i.e. interview skills, become crucial. Mock interview with your careers office asap.Shaggier1 wrote:Either this or drop out. Anything in between would be foolish. I personally would go for the former, but that depends on your constitution.Don't drop out. Really. I had a terrible 1L year - awful grades both semesters and managed to get a V100 SA. Everyone told me to drop out when I posted on here. Vault 100 was out. NLJ250 was out. BS. I sold hard at OCI and interviewed my ass off and got a job. Now you've "failed" at something you thought you had all worked out. So now is the time to use personality and get yourself out there. Most people will give up so there's actually an opportunity for you.
Start mass mailing. RIGHT NOW.
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
Obviously can't quote class-wide employment stats because I have no idea they are, but I will say that Boalt OCI was also very kind to me. I had 15+ callbacks invitations, have done 7 interviews so far (cancelled / turn down some cb invites), and have four offers and no rejections thus far. My record is good (I think top 15 or 20% or so). Have also heard lots of positive news from my classmates thus far.Anonymous User wrote:Please feel free to substantiate this.Why would anyone go to Berkeley anymore? You pay more money for worse job prospects than the rest of the T10 schools.
I just went through Boalt's OCI. I have 4 P's but still got 14 CB's (5 of which were from the V10) and I have 3 offers already (1 V10 and 2 V25's). ~top 40%, non-URM, work experience.
This is anecdotal, of course. But at least I am making some effort to be credible, as opposed to those who simply regurgitate claims about Berkeley's employment prospect without providing any supporting information whatsoever.
- ResolutePear
- Posts: 8599
- Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:07 pm
Re: Drop out?
IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSEAnonymous User wrote:Obviously can't quote class-wide employment stats because I have no idea they are, but I will say that Boalt OCI was also very kind to me. I had 15+ callbacks invitations, have done 7 interviews so far (cancelled / turn down some cb invites), and have four offers and no rejections thus far. My record is good (I think top 15 or 20% or so). Have also heard lots of positive news from my classmates thus far.Anonymous User wrote:Please feel free to substantiate this.Why would anyone go to Berkeley anymore? You pay more money for worse job prospects than the rest of the T10 schools.
I just went through Boalt's OCI. I have 4 P's but still got 14 CB's (5 of which were from the V10) and I have 3 offers already (1 V10 and 2 V25's). ~top 40%, non-URM, work experience.
This is anecdotal, of course. But at least I am making some effort to be credible, as opposed to those who simply regurgitate claims about Berkeley's employment prospect without providing any supporting information whatsoever.
- Julio_El_Chavo
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:09 pm
Re: Drop out?
Anonymous User wrote:Obviously can't quote class-wide employment stats because I have no idea they are, but I will say that Boalt OCI was also very kind to me. I had 15+ callbacks invitations, have done 7 interviews so far (cancelled / turn down some cb invites), and have four offers and no rejections thus far. My record is good (I think top 15 or 20% or so). Have also heard lots of positive news from my classmates thus far.Anonymous User wrote:Please feel free to substantiate this.Why would anyone go to Berkeley anymore? You pay more money for worse job prospects than the rest of the T10 schools.
I just went through Boalt's OCI. I have 4 P's but still got 14 CB's (5 of which were from the V10) and I have 3 offers already (1 V10 and 2 V25's). ~top 40%, non-URM, work experience.
This is anecdotal, of course. But at least I am making some effort to be credible, as opposed to those who simply regurgitate claims about Berkeley's employment prospect without providing any supporting information whatsoever.
It's well-documented that Boalt has historically placed students into NLJ250 firm jobs and Article III clerkships worse than the other T10 schools.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:07 pm
Re: Drop out?
As a GULC clerkship applicant, that's kind of a depressing chart. I would just add, to OP, that aptitude for the law's a kind of scarce commodity, you seem to have it, and you shouldn't quit now. If you were in the bottom of your class it'd be a whole different story.
-
- Posts: 428560
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Drop out?
What is the source for this? And what year is it from?It's well-documented that Boalt has historically placed students into NLJ250 firm jobs and Article III clerkships worse than the other T10 schools.
-
- Posts: 557
- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:49 pm
Re: Drop out?
+1Anonymous User wrote:What is the source for this? And what year is it from?
- Kronk
- Posts: 32987
- Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:18 pm
Re: Drop out?
Or this one? http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budgetCalifornia Babe wrote:People who don't think the debt adds up should visit this link.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- California Babe
- Posts: 239
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:45 am
Re: Drop out?
Well obviously they're all expensive. I chose the Berkeley link because OP claims to be incurring $155,000 worth of debt over the next two years and Berkeley's comes closest to achieving that. (Out-of-state costs at $78,000 x 2 years = $156,000, whereas Chicago's costs at $70,000 x 2 years = $140,000.)Kronk wrote:Or this one? http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budgetCalifornia Babe wrote:People who don't think the debt adds up should visit this link.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login