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Want to do litigation, be with good people, and learn. Opinions?

Anonymous User wrote:Want to do be with good people.

Well then don't go to Quinn.

Just kidding. But in seriousness, I found many of the personalities at Quinn very offputting. They're both great firms - do you have any preferences in terms of fit?

Also what office? Some of the Quinn offices have particular focuses (NY does a lot of plaintiff's-side financial services lit, some of the Cali offices are IP-heavy). Boies as far as I can tell has a more even spread.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Want to do be with good people.

Well then don't go to Quinn.

Just kidding. But in seriousness, I found many of the personalities at Quinn very offputting. They're both great firms - do you have any preferences in terms of fit?

Also what office? Some of the Quinn offices have particular focuses (NY does a lot of plaintiff's-side financial services lit, some of the Cali offices are IP-heavy). Boies as far as I can tell has a more even spread.

OP here. New York offices.

I was wondering what others thought. Specifically, where would you have a better experience. Of course "experience" can mean a lot of different things, but I was hoping for diverse answers...

Boies. If you're gonna bill 3000, might as well get a giant bonus.

rayiner wrote:Boies. If you're gonna bill 3000, might as well get a giant bonus.

Do you really think Boies associates bill more hours than say Cravath, Skadden, or DPW associates?

Anonymous User wrote:

rayiner wrote:Boies. If you're gonna bill 3000, might as well get a giant bonus.

Do you really think Boies associates bill more hours than say Cravath, Skadden, or DPW associates?

If they do, they get paid more for it, which is the point.

Anonymous User wrote:

rayiner wrote:Boies. If you're gonna bill 3000, might as well get a giant bonus.

Do you really think Boies associates bill more hours than say Cravath, Skadden, or DPW associates?

I think it'd be close. The difference is that you get paid more for billing those hours -- Boies pays pretty much as well as Wachtell. So if you're going to do the time, might as well collect $$$.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

rayiner wrote:Boies. If you're gonna bill 3000, might as well get a giant bonus.

Do you really think Boies associates bill more hours than say Cravath, Skadden, or DPW associates?

I think it'd be close. The difference is that you get paid more for billing those hours -- Boies pays pretty much as well as Wachtell. So if you're going to do the time, might as well collect $$$.

According to Vault - better than Wachtell. http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/com ... nyId=21347

Anonymous User wrote:

rayiner wrote:Boies. If you're gonna bill 3000, might as well get a giant bonus.

Do you really think Boies associates bill more hours than say Cravath, Skadden, or DPW associates?

Bois and Quinn work more hours than the corporate NYC firms. At my Cravath callback the associates remarked "man those Quinn folks work crazy hours."

Anonymous User wrote:According to Vault - better than Wachtell. http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/com ... nyId=21347

I don't disagree that it's possible for Boies associates to make more than Wachtell (since they can choose to get part of their compensation as a percentage of the fee Boies makes in contingency fee cases), but Vault is really not a legitimate source here (for example, W&C is ranked above Wachtell as well...)

Sup Kid wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:According to Vault - better than Wachtell. http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/com ... nyId=21347

I don't disagree that it's possible for Boies associates to make more than Wachtell (since they can choose to get part of their compensation as a percentage of the fee Boies makes in contingency fee cases), but Vault is really not a legitimate source here (for example, W&C is ranked above Wachtell as well...)

How about ATL? http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... bonus-bar/

I think working for a firm where one personality dominates the firm is kind-of-weird. I checked out that Quinn guy's twitter feed, seems obnoxious and full of himself. I imagine Mr. Boies or whatever is no different.

These are law firms which are like ego-stroking devices to these men. So maybe if you think you can enjoy that environment, or tolerate it, its ok.

I don't know first-hand though, I've heard Quinn's a huge sweatshop, so's Boies - i.e. more so than run of the mill big law.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Want to do be with good people.

Well then don't go to Quinn.

Just kidding. But in seriousness, I found many of the personalities at Quinn very offputting. They're both great firms - do you have any preferences in terms of fit?

How so? How would you describe the typical Quinn personality, and what kind of people do you think would mesh with them or find it a good fit culturally?

Anonymous User wrote: How so? How would you describe the typical Quinn personality, and what kind of people do you think would mesh with them or find it a good fit culturally?

Two things. Again, this is my impression. Your mileage may vary:

(1) They were very arrogant. Thought that there was no higher calling that working at Quinn, and that you would have to be crazy to work anywhere else. I know lots of firms like to talk about how they are great, but I definitely got a sense it was more than most, and more in a "other firms suck" sort of way rather than a "we are great" sort of way.

(2) It was remarkable how awkward some of the people were. It seems like they don't select for personality at all. Several of the associates could not hold a conversation, and based on every other callback, I'm relatively sure it wasn't me.

Don't get me wrong, I think Quinn is extremely good at what they do. But that seems to be the only unifying trait - I got the impression that they were looking for aggressive, hard-nosed litigators, and don't really care what positive or negative qualities come along with that.

I don't know much about Boies as I didn't interview with them and haven't done a ton of research. However, I want to step in to defend Quinn somewhat. I've had only a screener and dinner reception with them (and, admittedly, it was presumably full of the people the firm deemed were good with people), but I thought the Quinn folks seemed like the nicest/coolest, possibly with the exception of one other firm, I met during OCI. The associate I sat next to at dinner had me in stitches, repeatedly - it was difficult NOT to hold a conversation with him.

Anecdotal, but don't want the reputation of a firm I'm very interested in working for sullied

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: How so? How would you describe the typical Quinn personality, and what kind of people do you think would mesh with them or find it a good fit culturally?

Two things. Again, this is my impression. Your mileage may vary:

(1) They were very arrogant. Thought that there was no higher calling that working at Quinn, and that you would have to be crazy to work anywhere else. I know lots of firms like to talk about how they are great, but I definitely got a sense it was more than most, and more in a "other firms suck" sort of way rather than a "we are great" sort of way.

(2) It was remarkable how awkward some of the people were. It seems like they don't select for personality at all. Several of the associates could not hold a conversation, and based on every other callback, I'm relatively sure it wasn't me.

Don't get me wrong, I think Quinn is extremely good at what they do. But that seems to be the only unifying trait - I got the impression that they were looking for aggressive, hard-nosed litigators, and don't really care what positive or negative qualities come along with that.

Which office is this?

Anyone got comment on SF office?

Do both of these firms mean billing significantly more hours than V10 NYC firms?

Even in the Cali offices?

Anonymous User wrote: Which office is this?

Anyone got comment on SF office?

New York.

For what it's worth, I've anecdotally heard the CA offices are better.

Anonymous User wrote:
Two things. Again, this is my impression. Your mileage may vary:

(1) They were very arrogant. Thought that there was no higher calling that working at Quinn, and that you would have to be crazy to work anywhere else. I know lots of firms like to talk about how they are great, but I definitely got a sense it was more than most, and more in a "other firms suck" sort of way rather than a "we are great" sort of way.

(2) It was remarkable how awkward some of the people were. It seems like they don't select for personality at all. Several of the associates could not hold a conversation, and based on every other callback, I'm relatively sure it wasn't me.

Don't get me wrong, I think Quinn is extremely good at what they do. But that seems to be the only unifying trait - I got the impression that they were looking for aggressive, hard-nosed litigators, and don't really care what positive or negative qualities come along with that.

Interesting. I interviewed at a California office of Quinn, and my impressions are pretty much the opposite of yours. All the lawyers I met were personable and engaging, and none of them criticized other firms. So far, Quinn was my best overall callback experience.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
Two things. Again, this is my impression. Your mileage may vary:

(1) They were very arrogant. Thought that there was no higher calling that working at Quinn, and that you would have to be crazy to work anywhere else. I know lots of firms like to talk about how they are great, but I definitely got a sense it was more than most, and more in a "other firms suck" sort of way rather than a "we are great" sort of way.

(2) It was remarkable how awkward some of the people were. It seems like they don't select for personality at all. Several of the associates could not hold a conversation, and based on every other callback, I'm relatively sure it wasn't me.

Don't get me wrong, I think Quinn is extremely good at what they do. But that seems to be the only unifying trait - I got the impression that they were looking for aggressive, hard-nosed litigators, and don't really care what positive or negative qualities come along with that.

Interesting. I interviewed at a California office of Quinn, and my impressions are pretty much the opposite of yours. All the lawyers I met were personable and engaging, and none of them criticized other firms. So far, Quinn was my best overall callback experience.

this maybe a West Coast/East Coast firm thing then? wouldnt surprise me (OP NYC market right?)

Why does no one seems to know about Boies?

Would one firm offer better exit options? I'd assume they are about the same.

I interviewed with Boies last year for the Florida offices. People were great, not unlike any other firm. The thing they hammered home was that you will be expected to bill as much time as possible. Really the billing is limitless. The average out of the five attorneys I met was about 2600. One said she billed 2800 and got a six figure bonus. Comp is basically 174k base, with a bonus of one third of your generated revenue (your billable rate x hours billed) minus your base.

So if you are getting billed out at $350 an hour and bill 3000 hours, your generated $1,050,000 for the firm. One third of that is $346,500 minus your base of $174,000 (the same in all offices btw, which makes a state like FL attractive because of no state income tax) equals a potential bonus of $172,500. I was also told the firm does not follow this formula exactly and will usually explain why your bonus is lower. The associate that billed 2800 hours worked on the AmEx litigation and said her bonus was $160,000.

To answer the question about billing more than NYC corporate firms, yes, Boies bills more than them. Mostly because they have special billing agreements with clients in which contingency fees are collected and actual billing rates are not collected unless enough money is recovered though a settlement or judgment. There is a lot of flexibility with billing so literally an associate can bill all day but it doesn't mean the time will be collected.

I don't anything about Quinn.

Boies is a litigators dream job, I would argue better than W&C because of the responsibility and freedom to control one's schedule. Every associate I spoke with said they did depos within the first three months and argued motions within the first year. Every one of them. One guy was arguing a summary judgement motion second chair to David Boies in a class action suit. He was a third year associate.

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. Did you get an offer after the Florida interview?

I have a callback at a different BSF office in the next few weeks; don't know what to expect in terms of CB/offer ratio.

Anonymous User wrote:Interesting story, thanks for sharing. Did you get an offer after the Florida interview?

I have a callback at a different BSF office in the next few weeks; don't know what to expect in terms of CB/offer ratio.

I did not get an offer. Apparently, and this is coming from the office's hiring partner, one of the named partners must sign off on all new hires and laterals. The office I interviewed with said they passed me along to the senior partners and I did not get a favorable decision. It took about two months after CB to receive my decision. I have no idea what the CB/offer ratio might be because I never asked that question nor have I heard of any of my peers getting in at Boies. I got my interview mostly through connections and not through my school's OCI.

I do know that they barely hire people each year and that permanent offers, especially in the smaller offices, are given to only about 1/2 to 2/3 of the summers. The office I interviewed with didn't even have a summer. I have stayed in touch with the office because I am hoping to get in after clerking. They pretty much require it, even for the associates that get in straight from school. One associate told me that he was strongly encouraged after two years at the firm to get a federal district clerkship.