Least grade selective v15 firms? Forum

[Anonymous User]

At least at my school...

Super Grade Selective:

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington

Very Grade Selective:

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter

Not That Grade Selective:

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo
WilmerHale
Ropes & Gray

Even Less Grade Selective:

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

This is mostly accurate, though from last year (admittedly a small sample) I might move Covington (NY) down to the second tier.

[BruceWayne]

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Are you sure about this? I thought that Sidley (especially DC) was pretty selective?

[RVP11]

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Are you sure about this? I thought that Sidley (especially DC) was pretty selective?

Unless otherwise noted, I was thinking either NY or the firm's main office. For Sidley, I was thinking NY.

[Anonymous User]

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Are you sure about this? I thought that Sidley (especially DC) was pretty selective?

Unless otherwise noted, I was thinking either NY or the firm's main office. For Sidley, I was thinking NY.

That's a very helpful list. Do you know where these NY offices would place on your scale?

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Fried Frank
Milbank
Cadwalader
Allen and Overy
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Wilkie Farr
Hogan
Fulbright
Morgan Lewis
McDermott

[jawsthegreat]

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Are you sure about this? I thought that Sidley (especially DC) was pretty selective?

Unless otherwise noted, I was thinking either NY or the firm's main office. For Sidley, I was thinking NY.

That's a very helpful list. Do you know where these NY offices would place on your scale?

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Fried Frank
Milbank
Cadwalader
Allen and Overy
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Wilkie Farr
Hogan
Fulbright
Morgan Lewis
McDermott

I'd like to see that too.

[Anonymous User]

RVP- thanks for the list. Do you mind saying what school?

[quakeroats]

RVP- thanks for the list. Do you mind saying what school?

UVA.

[RVP11]

I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
hogan lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy

Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott

[Anonymous User]

I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy

Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott

There's parts of this I'm not sure I agree with.

Shearman should be higher. Last year, Cahill's average callback GPA > Weil, Jones Day, White & Case. Skadden/Latham's average callback GPAs were above a 3.6

[RVP11]

I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy

Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott

There's parts of this I'm not sure I agree with.

Shearman should be higher. Last year, Cahill's average callback GPA > Weil, Jones Day, White & Case. Skadden/Latham's average callback GPAs were above a 3.6

A) I have data that extends back more than one year.

B) A 3.6 average callback might mean they called back everyone over a 3.7, but still gave a callback to someone with a 3.3. Note my attempt is to list what I think are probably the absolute CUTOFFS, not the average callbacks. Averages are skewed by the one dude with a 3.85 who is a great interviewer and gets 20+ callbacks.

C) Some firms that were overly selective at OGI came crawling back and actually re-interviewed and/or called back people they had previously "rejected." (Skadden and Cahill are two I can name.) So it's unclear whether those numbers are included.

[Anonymous User]

I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy

Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott

There's parts of this I'm not sure I agree with.

Shearman should be higher. Last year, Cahill's average callback GPA > Weil, Jones Day, White & Case. Skadden/Latham's average callback GPAs were above a 3.6

A) I have data that extends back more than one year.

B) A 3.6 average callback might mean they called back everyone over a 3.7, but still gave a callback to someone with a 3.3. Note my attempt is to list what I think are probably the absolute CUTOFFS, not the average callbacks. Averages are skewed by the one dude with a 3.85 who is a great interviewer and gets 20+ callbacks.

C) Some firms that were overly selective at OGI - two of the firms you named, and a few others - came crawling back and actually re-interviewed and/or called back people they had previously "rejected."

I have a 3.49. You're saying I'm out of the running at all those firms you listed at 3.5+?

[RVP11]

I have a 3.49. You're saying I'm out of the running at all those firms you listed at 3.5+?

It's amazing that you got a 3.49 given you have a learning disability that doesn't allow you to read my post.

[Anonymous User]

A) I have data that extends back more than one year.

B) A 3.6 average callback might mean they called back everyone over a 3.7, but still gave a callback to someone with a 3.3. Note my attempt is to list what I think are probably the absolute CUTOFFS, not the average callbacks. Averages are skewed by the one dude with a 3.85 who is a great interviewer and gets 20+ callbacks.

C) Some firms that were overly selective at OGI came crawling back and actually re-interviewed and/or called back people they had previously "rejected." (Skadden and Cahill are two I can name.) So it's unclear whether those numbers are included.

Ah, missed that you were talking about cutoffs. Carry on, good man.

[thesealocust]

I agree with RVP's analysis, but want to add the caveat that the lower your GPA is, the longer a shot any given firm often is. There are plenty of firms that, for example, RVP lists as "3.5+" but made most of their offers to people with a 3.7+. RVP's list is thus great to find out where you should apply and where you have any chance at all, but less great at figuring out where your odds are actually strong.

That's not a problem of anything except expectations - people should be bidding wherever they have a shot, even if others have a better shot.

[Anonymous User]

Where would the magic circle firms fit into this analysis?

[danidancer]

Where would the magic circle firms fit into this analysis?

Also interested in this. I know the NYC offices are generally less selective than the London offices, but would love more specifics.

[seriouslyinformative]

Of the Magic Circle firms in NYC, the only one worth the bid and consideration if you can afford to be picky is Freshfields.

[Anonymous User]

Of the Magic Circle firms in NYC, the only one worth the bid and consideration if you can afford to be picky is Freshfields.

What does that even mean?

[Anonymous User]

I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy

Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

So I guess these GPA "soft cutoffs" are for UVA? How much do they shift at all, if at all, for CCN? Sorry if that's a dumb question, I'm new to this.

[Bronte]

Do a lot of schools not give out a GPA sheet?

[Anonymous User]

I have a 3.49. You're saying I'm out of the running at all those firms you listed at 3.5+?

It's amazing that you got a 3.49 given you have a learning disability that doesn't allow you to read my post.

[Anonymous User]

I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy

Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott

how competitive is Akin Gump DC, given that DC is deemed to be significantly more competitive than NYC. Thanks.

[swc65]

I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy

Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott

I am just curious what the percentages are for these GPAs

[5ky]

At UVa (where that poster goes):

3.3+ = median and above
3.4 + = top third-ish and above
3.5 + = top quarter-ish and above
3.6 + = top 15%ish and above
3.7+ = LR grade-on-ish and above, around top 6-7%

[swc65]

At UVa (where that poster goes):

3.3+ = median and above
3.4 + = top third-ish and above
3.5 + = top quarter-ish and above
3.6 + = top 15%ish and above
3.7+ = LR grade-on-ish and above, around top 6-7%

Thanks.