Top Law Schools

Needless to say, my undergrad experience is nothing to brag about. Unimpressive major, school, and GPA, although I still managed to get into a T6 and do pretty well in 1L. I was doing some OCI research and I ran across something that mentioned Cravath wants an undergraduate transcript brought to the OCI interview. Is this normal? Are there some firms out there that have a reputation for poring over your undergraduate transcript and possibly even using it as a means to make decisions? At this point, I'm ready to scratch off of my bid list any firm that specifically asks for one, especially considering that my post-LS-acceptance, final senior semester was the worse slacking off I've ever done in my life.

(for what it's worth, I'm straight UG->LS, so I don't have, say, a decade of work experience as a gulf between me and this stain)

And here I thought that my lackluster UG performance was behind me after everything I've done since then....

Yes, this is unusual. In general you should be fine.

While it's unusual, does anyone who has been through OCI know firms that even request an undergrad transcript at all? Unlike OP, my undergrad GPA is downright atrocious (but I do have WE separating myself).

Searching through old posts, it seems like Ropes asks (and apparently Cravath does too, but they would laugh me out of the interview before they even saw my undergrad GPA ), but I was wondering if there were any other firms.

keg411 wrote:apparently Cravath does too, but they would laugh me out of the interview before they even saw my undergrad GPA

ah, see, they would laugh me out of the interview after they saw my undergrad transcript

Anonymous User wrote:

keg411 wrote:apparently Cravath does too, but they would laugh me out of the interview before they even saw my undergrad GPA

ah, see, they would laugh me out of the interview after they saw my undergrad transcript

I doubt any firm will laugh you out of an interview based on undergrad grades AFTER your law school grades impress them enough to give you an interview slot. It might (guessing here) make a difference in actual offers (ie. if two close applicants, UG grades may be a tie breaker).

My undergraduate grades were abysmal as well. I was academically disqualified, took a year off and finished my degree afterwards. I have some work experience (only 3.5ish years). Don't worry about UG grades too much now.

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APimpNamedSlickback wrote:if i lose out on a gig at cravath because of my antics as a college freshman, i will not be happy.

anyway, i've heard that cravath looks pretty closely at the ugrad transcript. they certainly asked for them during 1l recruiting. not sure about other top firms that ask for those grades, however.

Possibly because for a fresh 1L, four years of academic history do more to establish habits and patterns than one stellar semester of law school grades?

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Not sure if this is still their practice, but Atlanta based (also has Wash. DC, Texas, NYC, California & London offices) Sutherland, Asbill & Brennan required undergraduate & high school transcripts in addition to being in the top 5% of one's law school class.

Aston2412 wrote:

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:if i lose out on a gig at cravath because of my antics as a college freshman, i will not be happy.

anyway, i've heard that cravath looks pretty closely at the ugrad transcript. they certainly asked for them during 1l recruiting. not sure about other top firms that ask for those grades, however.

Possibly because for a fresh 1L, four years of academic history do more to establish habits and patterns than one stellar semester of law school grades?

What about for those of us with years of post-undergrad, pre-LS WE? I would think that would do more to establish habits and patterns of performance (especially combined with top LS grades) then stuff that happened 6-10 years ago, and if anything would be demonstrative that undergrad record should be ignored. But I know nothing about how law firms hire, which is why I want to know what firms put emphasis on undergrad grades (besides Cravath, who wouldn't look at me even if I had a 4.0 in undergrad).

keg411 wrote:

Aston2412 wrote:

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:if i lose out on a gig at cravath because of my antics as a college freshman, i will not be happy.

anyway, i've heard that cravath looks pretty closely at the ugrad transcript. they certainly asked for them during 1l recruiting. not sure about other top firms that ask for those grades, however.

Possibly because for a fresh 1L, four years of academic history do more to establish habits and patterns than one stellar semester of law school grades?

What about for those of us with years of post-undergrad, pre-LS WE? I would think that would do more to establish habits and patterns of performance (especially combined with top LS grades) then stuff that happened 6-10 years ago, and if anything would be demonstrative that undergrad record should be ignored. But I know nothing about how law firms hire, which is why I want to know what firms put emphasis on undergrad grades (besides Cravath, who wouldn't look at me even if I had a 4.0 in undergrad).

Don't be so hard on yourself. Cravath doesn't look at most people.

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APimpNamedSlickback wrote:
someone without a snowball's chance in hell of swinging a gig at a v50, let alone CSM, will chime in with something like "i wouldnt want to work at cravath anyway!" in 3...2...1..

You got me.

Ug, I hate showing around my UG transcript because of freshman year. Had financial problems at the time, that created a crazy situation that involved multiple transfers. My trick is to never let it sit and have them stare at C's while just forming their own assumptions. I immediately bring it up in some lighthearted way, or make some joke about it. That usually breaks the ice about it, and they invite me to discuss and explain. By getting it behind me very quickly, it completely takes the focus off my UG transcript.

Freshman year grades aren't likely to hurt you in your situation.

My UGPA fucked me in the ass at patent boutiques.

My 3.9 GPA may actually still pay dividends? This is potentially exciting.

I didn't actually think any law firm would actually care about what major you were or what your GPA was though.

I just noticed this requirement as well. Do they expect an official undergrad transcript, or does an unofficial transcript suffice? Weirdly, my undergrad doesn't put our names on unofficial transcripts...

Aston2412 wrote:Don't be so hard on yourself. Cravath doesn't look at most people.

I don't care about CSM. I just want a job. In fact, I'm thinking applying to or bidding on* primarily "horrible sweatshops" or places where no one really wants to work just so I can get something. I just want to make sure the horrible sweatshops don't care that I decided not to go to class in undergrad.

*Got into one transfer school so far, so there's a chance I'll be at a T14 this fall and have to deal with the whole bidding strategy thing rather than just my mass mail + OCI thing that I'd do if I decide to stay.

keg411 wrote:

Aston2412 wrote:Don't be so hard on yourself. Cravath doesn't look at most people.

I just want a job. In fact, I'm thinking applying to or bidding on* primarily "horrible sweatshops" or places where no one really wants to work just so I can get something.

*Got into one transfer school so far, so there's a chance I'll be at a T14 this fall and have to deal with the whole bidding strategy thing rather than just my mass mail + OCI thing that I'd do if I decide to stay.

I'm right there with you.

Where are you at now? If your grades are good enough to transfer into a T14 you're certainly doing something right.

Cravath called back a 2.8 at Northwestern last year. CravaTTTh.

Anonymous User wrote:Cravath called back a 2.8 at Northwestern last year. CravaTTTh.

STFU!

Was it a Cherokee war vet who'd been discharged under DADT?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Cravath called back a 2.8 at Northwestern last year. CravaTTTh.

STFU!

Was it a Cherokee war vet who'd been discharged under DADT?

No clue who it was.

2.8 is truly awful at NU. Gotta be bottom ten people in class or so.

Do you know if that person got a job with them?

Anonymous User wrote:

keg411 wrote:

Aston2412 wrote:Don't be so hard on yourself. Cravath doesn't look at most people.

I just want a job. In fact, I'm thinking applying to or bidding on* primarily "horrible sweatshops" or places where no one really wants to work just so I can get something.

*Got into one transfer school so far, so there's a chance I'll be at a T14 this fall and have to deal with the whole bidding strategy thing rather than just my mass mail + OCI thing that I'd do if I decide to stay.

I'm right there with you.

Where are you at now? If your grades are good enough to transfer into a T14 you're certainly doing something right.

At a T2. My LS GPA is really good. It's just my undergrad GPA that is atrocious, which is why I'd like to avoid firms that care about that stuff.