Top Law Schools

I have a few questions out of curiosity regarding what everyone seems to think is the top law firm in the country:

1. What is the compensation? I believe the base is 165,000, and then the number for bonus I haven't found anything credible, it's ranged from 50-100% of base salary, so anyone care to clear that up?

2. What does it take to get hired at this firm? From what I have read they really like the top law schools, and hire mostly out of HLS. At the same time I read that they hired the top graduate from HLS a few years ago and fired him in the same year, so there must be other things they look for.

3. The profiles of their attorneys seem as impressive as it is going to get, though I'm sure you don't need to be superman to get hired at this firm, what is the minimum? It looks to me as if they look for people who graduated from elite UG (Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, Stanford, etc.) and went on to graduate in the top 10-15% of a top law school. What also helps is an M.B.A., and quite a few of the attorneys are Marshall Scholars, with a couple Rhodies.

4. Is there a consensus that this is the best firm in the country? If not, which is?

5. How many of the 2L summer associates do they bring back to work full time (percentage wise)?

6. From what I've read, there is upwards of a 75% chance you make partner if you are hired at this firm and stick with it for 7-8 years. True? Not True? Why/why not?

7. Corporate seems to be their strongest department....in general I think law firms will prefer someone strong applying to a weaker division...would applying to their litigation department (with proper clerking experience, of course), give you a better chance of being hired?

8. Hours?

9. What are some of the perks/benefits? A friend of mine mentioned that his 2L summer associate class was invited to a bunch of exclusive and awesome events outside of office work, and that rather than there being a competitive atmosphere to get re-hired they seem to try and lure their summer associates to join the firm if you will. Do you get free transportation, gym membership, stuff like that...

10. Final question: It seems as though many of the firms attorneys are people with extraordinary promise that can really change the world one way or another...do people leave the firm to do other amazing things like run for office etc. or once one makes partner is the 4 million a year too much to leave?

Thanks for your time look forward to reading your responses!

I think this article answers a number of those questions: http://www.top-law-schools.com/wachtell ... -katz.html

Talking about "the best firm in the country" is a bunch of nonsense. If you are interested in a high-profile M&A practice, then WLRK is probably "the best firm in the country." For general corporate work, Cravath, SullCrom, Skadden, STB and others in the V10 may be better regarded (although it's close -- WLRK is obviously still a major player).

On the other hand, if you want to litigate, WLRK isn't in the same league as specialized D.C. boutiques and litigation-focused firms. Practice areas matter a lot; it just so happens that M&A deals are an especially profitable practice area, hence why WLRK is fixated at #1.

loblaw wrote:I think this article answers a number of those questions: http://www.top-law-schools.com/wachtell ... -katz.html

This and pretty much /thread

Anonymous User wrote: 2. What does it take to get hired at this firm? From what I have read they really like the top law schools, and hire mostly out of HLS. At the same time I read that they hired the top graduate from HLS a few years ago and fired him in the same year, so there must be other things they look for.

I went to the firm reception they had for CLS students and they said that they had more lawyers from CLS than any other law school. So I don't know about the hiring most out of HLS. I think they hire about the same from Yale, Harvard, and Columbia. With NYU and Stanford a little bit lower.

I know that last year 4 CLS students got offers (only 2 accepted). And in another thread some HLS student said that last year they gave 4 students out of HLS offers.

liLtuneChi wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: 2. What does it take to get hired at this firm? From what I have read they really like the top law schools, and hire mostly out of HLS. At the same time I read that they hired the top graduate from HLS a few years ago and fired him in the same year, so there must be other things they look for.

I went to the firm reception they had for CLS students and they said that they had more lawyers from CLS than any other law school. So I don't know about the hiring most out of HLS. I think they hire about the same from Yale, Harvard, and Columbia. With NYU and Stanford a little bit lower.

I know that last year 4 CLS students got offers (only 2 accepted). And in another thread some HLS student said that last year they gave 4 students out of HLS offers.

All four name partners are graduates of NYU and Marty Lipton is on the Board of Trustees for the university. I'd tend to think that a top grad of NYU would have just as strong of a chance at getting hired as any similarly situated student at any other T6 school. That said, I'm talking out of my ass, because I don't have any first hand experience with the firm.

As far as "the best" there really are no law firms that are the best at everything. Biglaw lit departments like Boise, Shiller or Quinn Emanuel or WC, etc are going to be handling higher profile lit cases on a regular basis than say WLRK. But at the same time, WLRK also handled the WTC mess on the insurance side, with Herb Wachtell putting in some impressive work.

.

reasonable_man wrote:

liLtuneChi wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: 2. What does it take to get hired at this firm? From what I have read they really like the top law schools, and hire mostly out of HLS. At the same time I read that they hired the top graduate from HLS a few years ago and fired him in the same year, so there must be other things they look for.

I went to the firm reception they had for CLS students and they said that they had more lawyers from CLS than any other law school. So I don't know about the hiring most out of HLS. I think they hire about the same from Yale, Harvard, and Columbia. With NYU and Stanford a little bit lower.

I know that last year 4 CLS students got offers (only 2 accepted). And in another thread some HLS student said that last year they gave 4 students out of HLS offers.

All four name partners are graduates of NYU

which is why I was surprised that have a decent number more lawyers (45 to 32) from CLS than NYU when all the name partners are from NYU.......this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that NYU is larger than CLS. I think HLS with 44 lawyers is the second largest contingent at WLRK.

Sure a top NYU students has as good a chance as anyone but I think that WLRK seems to prefer CLS and HLS students more.

WLRK is a firm where you trade everything in your life for interesting work, prestige, and $$$. It tops the vault rankings every year because it is small but noteworthy, practices chiefly M&A law which makes headlines, and generates obscene profits from its work. That being said, the vault rankings are literally nothing but a survey of law firm associates asking them to rank law firms based on prestige. It's a terrific firm, and one that could vie for a silly title like "best firm in the country" - but its notoriety is chiefly because it's just big enough, just new york enough, and in just the right practice area. There are many other practice areas, including non-deal litigation (plaintiffs side, corporate defense, white collar / internal investigations), capital markets/credit, bankruptcy, regulatory work of a thousand stripes, and many more which Wachtell either doesn't practice at all or isn't especially noteworthy for.

You're welcome to pour over their attorney bios and try to nitpick their preferences and hiring criteria, but really it's a small firm (compared to other big law firms) that can afford to be selective and so it hires from a narrow band of law students but not hardly exclusively the "top" students or anything like that. They only go to a few campuses because with summer classes the size that they run it'd be silly to visit more, but they routinely interview students with credentials that fit their mold who apply from schools they don't explicitly recruit from.

And as has already been discussed, it's a firm where you'll earn every penny you receive in compensation. It's basically the undisputed champion of long hours, claiming the entirety of your time. Other similar firms claim lots - or even most of - your time, but it's pretty much in a league of its own there.

It's really not worth being obsessed with, but it sure as hell does a good job of cultivating its own image (money talks).

Rock Chalk wrote:

bhan87 wrote:

loblaw wrote:I think this article answers a number of those questions: http://www.top-law-schools.com/wachtell ... -katz.html

This and pretty much /thread

I just read that article and have absolutely no clue why anyone would ever want to work there.

$250,000 (in a bad year - plus, people ignore the fact that Wachtell's benefits - i.e., matching 401k - are much better than most firms these days) vs. $175,000; even if you're comparing against a firm where you bill 2200 instead of 3200, that's $75 an hour more (and if you're considering Wachtell, you're probably looking primarily at firms where 2200 is going to be on the low end).

You either think it's worth it or you don't. I certainly think it is.

liLtuneChi wrote:
which is why I was surprised that have a decent number more lawyers (45 to 32) from CLS than NYU when all the name partners are from NYU.......this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that NYU is larger than CLS. I think HLS with 44 lawyers is the second largest contingent at WLRK.

Sure a top NYU students has as good a chance as anyone but I think that WLRK seems to prefer CLS and HLS students more.

They don't hire more CLS students than NYU, on average. But, CLS students students stick it out longer in biglaw generally, and apparently WLRK is no exception. Either NYU students are a bunch of peacenik hippies that only go to firms for a couple years to pay back their loans, or they are (on average) not the best biglaw lawyers. Or both.

I'm curious about the exit options. Only reason I'd like to work there is the possibility of entering into a specialized finance-type position afterward (e.g., HF or PE) that is generally unavailable to law school grads.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm curious about the exit options. Only reason I'd like to work there is the possibility of entering into a specialized finance-type position afterward (e.g., HF or PE) that is generally unavailable to law school grads.

I don't think Wachtell has a private equity practice, so I'm guessing that would be a tough transition.

Renzo wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm curious about the exit options. Only reason I'd like to work there is the possibility of entering into a specialized finance-type position afterward (e.g., HF or PE) that is generally unavailable to law school grads.

I don't think Wachtell has a private equity practice, so I'm guessing that would be a tough transition.

But they have a HF niche?

$20 says OP is Maserati91

Anonymous User wrote:

Renzo wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm curious about the exit options. Only reason I'd like to work there is the possibility of entering into a specialized finance-type position afterward (e.g., HF or PE) that is generally unavailable to law school grads.

I don't think Wachtell has a private equity practice, so I'm guessing that would be a tough transition.

But they have a HF niche?

What's an HF? Is it some crazy code for seller-side M&A work? If so, yes. If not, probably not.

Renzo wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Renzo wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm curious about the exit options. Only reason I'd like to work there is the possibility of entering into a specialized finance-type position afterward (e.g., HF or PE) that is generally unavailable to law school grads.

I don't think Wachtell has a private equity practice, so I'm guessing that would be a tough transition.

But they have a HF niche?

What's an HF? Is it some crazy code for seller-side M&A work? If so, yes. If not, probably not.

Abbreviation for Hedge Fund?

upgrade wrote:

Renzo wrote:
What's an HF? Is it some crazy code for seller-side M&A work? If so, yes. If not, probably not.

Abbreviation for Hedge Fund?

Yeah, that's a good guess. In which case, no, Wachtell doesn't do that either.

If you're interested in PE or HF work and have the creds for WLRK you'd probably be happier (if such a thing is possible) at a more traditional Wall Street firm like SullCrom CSM or DPW. Those firms have more substantial practices in those areas.

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reasonable_man wrote: As far as "the best" there really are no law firms that are the best at everything. Biglaw lit departments like Boise, Shiller or Quinn Emanuel or WC, etc are going to be handling higher profile lit cases on a regular basis than say WLRK. But at the same time, WLRK also handled the WTC mess on the insurance side, with Herb Wachtell putting in some impressive work.

?????????

ToTransferOrNot wrote:

Rock Chalk wrote:

bhan87 wrote:

loblaw wrote:I think this article answers a number of those questions: http://www.top-law-schools.com/wachtell ... -katz.html

This and pretty much /thread

I just read that article and have absolutely no clue why anyone would ever want to work there.

$250,000 (in a bad year - plus, people ignore the fact that Wachtell's benefits - i.e., matching 401k - are much better than most firms these days) vs. $175,000; even if you're comparing against a firm where you bill 2200 instead of 3200, that's $75 an hour more (and if you're considering Wachtell, you're probably looking primarily at firms where 2200 is going to be on the low end).

You either think it's worth it or you don't. I certainly think it is.

http://www.averyindex.com/highest_paid_1.php

ToTransferOrNot wrote:

Rock Chalk wrote:

bhan87 wrote:

loblaw wrote:I think this article answers a number of those questions: http://www.top-law-schools.com/wachtell ... -katz.html

This and pretty much /thread

I just read that article and have absolutely no clue why anyone would ever want to work there.

$250,000 (in a bad year - plus, people ignore the fact that Wachtell's benefits - i.e., matching 401k - are much better than most firms these days) vs. $175,000; even if you're comparing against a firm where you bill 2200 instead of 3200, that's $75 an hour more (and if you're considering Wachtell, you're probably looking primarily at firms where 2200 is going to be on the low end).

You either think it's worth it or you don't. I certainly think it is.

This is misleading. At most of WLRK's peer firms, associates can be expected to bill at least 2k and get paid $170k. ~$85 an hour. At WLRK, you will bill around 3k, and get paid $250k, ~$83 an hour. So basically the firm is squeezing a thousand more hours out of you for less money per hour, allowing the firm to make more money and more money per hour. That's why associates hate billing so many hour- diminishing returns.

Renzo seems to be on a misinformation roll lately.

1) Wachtell does do privat equity work, and they have a huge book of privat equity work. Those OMM corporate partners who just decamped for Paul Weiss... their clients often use Wachtell for thsir bigger deals. Wachtell isn't a private equity giant, though.

2) It's humorous that people here seem to think Wachtell prefers CLS or HLS students to NYU. HLS I can't confirm. But there's documentary evidence that they gave more offers to NYU students than to CLS students both this year and last. I can't confirm for other years, since I haven't seen th data.

seriouslyinformative wrote:Renzo seems to be on a misinformation roll lately.

1) Wachtell does do privat equity work, and they have a huge book of privat equity work. Those OMM corporate partners who just decamped for Paul Weiss... their clients often use Wachtell for thsir bigger deals. Wachtell isn't a private equity giant, though.

2) It's humorous that people here seem to think Wachtell prefers CLS or HLS students to NYU. HLS I can't confirm. But there's documentary evidence that they gave more offers to NYU students than to CLS students both this year and last. I can't confirm for other years, since I haven't seen th data.

Why would you make a statement like that, then admit that you have no idea regarding its validity. You a mad NYU-er, bro?