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I don't really know what happened. After I got my 2Hs fall semester, I wasn't happy, but I was OK with it. After all, I said to myself, I didn't really know how to study, and I definitely could've started outlining earlier. So during the spring semester, I outlined earlier, studied harder, memorized more, and asked more 2Ls for tips, but to no avail--I got straight Ps for the spring.

Where does this put me in the class? Def. below average...maybe bottom 1/3?
What are my NYC biglaw chances? What firms should I be targeting for OCI?

i think 8P/2H is somewhere between 33% and 50%.

You go to Harvard. Your biglaw chances are pretty good anywhere in the country. Sure not at the most elite firms, but you can get a market paying job somewhere.

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englawyer wrote:i think 8P/2H is somewhere between 33% and 50%.

You mean top 33 and top 50%? That doesn't seem right at all.

I think he meant between the 33rd and 50th percentiles, which sounds about right with 2 Hs and no LPs.

OP here. Any rising 2Ls know specifically which firms will take these grades? Anyone know about chances at Jones Day, Ropes & Gray, Paul Hastings? I have fairly strong involvement in a secondary journal, and I'm involved in a couple of other campus activities. I'm a fairly good interviewer--not socially awkward.

And also, can someone tell me wtf it takes to do well on exams? Clearly, I'm doing it wrong.

A Purple Cow wrote:I think he meant between the 33rd and 50th percentiles, which sounds about right with 2 Hs and no LPs.

Oh good call. That definitely makes sense.

OP, go talk to OCS about it, they were very helpful with my 1L SA firm search, and they'll be eager to help if you solicit their advice earlier rather than the week before bidding starts. But I doubt if 2H's is enough for the V10/selective V20 firms. Go for the big classes in the V40-100 range, and you should get some bites (in NY). What markets are you planning to go for?

Did you study enough/efficiently for exams? I find a big correlation in my grades with how focused I was when I studied for them. Ex: the exams I took first were invariably higher grades since I wasn't burned out, like I was at the end.

A Purple Cow wrote:I think he meant between the 33rd and 50th percentiles, which sounds about right with 2 Hs and no LPs.

exactly. it seemed awkward to say between top 50% and top 66% haha.

my understanding of the approximate curve at HLS (from stalking various threads etc):

P's mixed with LP's: 0-15%
Straight P's 15-33%
1-2 H's 33-50%
3 H's 50%
4-5 H's 50-66%

not so sure about the high end of the curve (top 1/3) but if you have more than 5 H's i think you are in there.

OP, PM me also. Same situation.

re: voters you said V10 in the poll

Wait. You can be below median at HLS and snag not only V100 SA job but possibly V10? But, at the lower T-14, if you are below median, you are probably not even going to get a V100 SA job at all!?

lawyerwannabe wrote:re: voters you said V10 in the poll

Wait. You can be below median at HLS and snag not only V100 SA job but possibly V10? But, at the lower T-14, if you are below median, you are probably not even going to get a V100 SA job at all!?

Yes. It's not very likely that below median at HLS will get a V10, but HLS places > 70% in Biglaw annually.

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any rising 2Ls know specifically which firms will take these grades? Anyone know about chances at Jones Day, Ropes & Gray, Paul Hastings? I have fairly strong involvement in a secondary journal, and I'm involved in a couple of other campus activities. I'm a fairly good interviewer--not socially awkward.

And also, can someone tell me wtf it takes to do well on exams? Clearly, I'm doing it wrong.

You won't get Jones Day or Ropes & Gray. Unsure about Paul Hastings, but that seems like you'd be out as well. I knew people last year with better grades who didn't get callbacks at these firms (who were otherwise personable people). You should probably look around V50 firms as a target.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any rising 2Ls know specifically which firms will take these grades? Anyone know about chances at Jones Day, Ropes & Gray, Paul Hastings? I have fairly strong involvement in a secondary journal, and I'm involved in a couple of other campus activities. I'm a fairly good interviewer--not socially awkward.

And also, can someone tell me wtf it takes to do well on exams? Clearly, I'm doing it wrong.

You won't get Jones Day or Ropes & Gray. Unsure about Paul Hastings, but that seems like you'd be out as well. I knew people last year with better grades who didn't get callbacks at these firms (who were otherwise personable people). You should probably look around V50 firms as a target.

Seems unnecessarily conservative for HLS...

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any rising 2Ls know specifically which firms will take these grades? Anyone know about chances at Jones Day, Ropes & Gray, Paul Hastings? I have fairly strong involvement in a secondary journal, and I'm involved in a couple of other campus activities. I'm a fairly good interviewer--not socially awkward.

And also, can someone tell me wtf it takes to do well on exams? Clearly, I'm doing it wrong.

You won't get Jones Day or Ropes & Gray. Unsure about Paul Hastings, but that seems like you'd be out as well. I knew people last year with better grades who didn't get callbacks at these firms (who were otherwise personable people). You should probably look around V50 firms as a target.

Seems unnecessarily conservative for HLS...

HLS has ~560 students per year and OP is probably in the bottom 40%. Given that 330ish HLS kids are above him, I don't think it's conservative.

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Bzzt, wrong. Firms distinguish based on the number of H's on your transcript. I had more than one interview where the interviewer literally counted up the number of H's on my transcript. Some even wrote the number on the top of the transcript and circled it. And some firms offered on-the-spot callbacks based on the number of H's on your transcript (i.e. some interviewees who ultimately got callbacks only received them afterward, but those with strong enough grades got them right there and then).

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any rising 2Ls know specifically which firms will take these grades? Anyone know about chances at Jones Day, Ropes & Gray, Paul Hastings? I have fairly strong involvement in a secondary journal, and I'm involved in a couple of other campus activities. I'm a fairly good interviewer--not socially awkward.

And also, can someone tell me wtf it takes to do well on exams? Clearly, I'm doing it wrong.

You won't get Jones Day or Ropes & Gray. Unsure about Paul Hastings, but that seems like you'd be out as well. I knew people last year with better grades who didn't get callbacks at these firms (who were otherwise personable people). You should probably look around V50 firms as a target.

Seems unnecessarily conservative for HLS...

Given what I stated above, in addition to the fact that I work at one of the above firms, I don't think it's unnecessarily conservative based on what firms were looking for during EIP 2010. If it's loosened up, then the OP will benefit. Certainly the OP could bid on those firms as reaches, but I don't think they are appropriate targets.

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:I seriously doubt that our grading system lends itself to this kind of analysis. Do you really think that just two more Hs, which presumably be enough to catapult op over median, would really be enough to drastically change his job prospects? I doubt it.

Our grading system simply doesnt allow for those kinds of fine distinctions between people outside of the top and bottom 20%. My guess is that so much turns on stuff other than grades for the vast majority of students. Thus, I doubt an analysis of whether some dude is at he 40th 50th or 60th percentile is very useful. At least that is my fairly substantiated opinion, although of course feel free to disagree...

So, you don't think that there would be a difference in a person's job prospects--who is demonstrably below median--if that person was above median? That's . . . odd.

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Do Ropes and/or Jones Day have a "hard" cut-off w/r/t # of H's? I have heard S&C is 5H. I can't imagine those firms would have the same cut-off..is it like 3H or what?

Also, which strategy do firms use:

#1. Establish a grade cut-off. Everyone above the cut-off is in play, more or less equally. Comes down to fit.

#2. Establish a grade cut-off, but grades still have a "sliding scale" effect. Very high grades = presumptive callback/offer.

Depends on the firm is the sense I've gotten. At firms with reputations for grade snobbiness and hard cutoffs I'd imagine the second is more likely though.

GeePee wrote:Depends on the firm is the sense I've gotten. At firms with reputations for grade snobbiness and hard cutoffs I'd imagine the second is more likely though.

Any idea how we get this kind of info? Does HLS publish any info regarding what sort of grades firms are looking for? Everything is so vague...

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any rising 2Ls know specifically which firms will take these grades? Anyone know about chances at Jones Day, Ropes & Gray, Paul Hastings? I have fairly strong involvement in a secondary journal, and I'm involved in a couple of other campus activities. I'm a fairly good interviewer--not socially awkward.

And also, can someone tell me wtf it takes to do well on exams? Clearly, I'm doing it wrong.

You won't get Jones Day or Ropes & Gray. Unsure about Paul Hastings, but that seems like you'd be out as well. I knew people last year with better grades who didn't get callbacks at these firms (who were otherwise personable people). You should probably look around V50 firms as a target.

Do you think there is a difference in this advice for someone with 1H as opposed to 2? Or is V50 still accurate?

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