Orrick: You too could make $60k in West Virginia! Forum

[TTH]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/busin ... wyers.html

A buddy of mine works here. It's pretty much doc review all the time, and he's paid hourly.

The sad thing, it's pretty good money for West Virginia.

[KMaine]

Interesting article. Without debt, and outside of big cities, this would not be a bad career option.

[cpajd]

Interesting article, and you're right, its generally good money for WV. Its all a matter of perspective. If you go to WVU (or elsewhere for that matter) and come out with little or no debt, the cost of living is often so cheap you've got a great lifestyle career and you feel pretty good. Sounds like many of these attorneys are happy about where they are in life, even if its not what they originally envisioned for their career. But God help those that went to school and paid top $$, and have to "settle" for these jobs, and just hope they can service their massive debt from undergad and law school. Again, its all a matter of where you're coming from.

[bdubs]

Interesting article, and you're right, its generally good money for WV. Its all a matter of perspective. If you go to WVU (or elsewhere for that matter) and come out with little or no debt, the cost of living is often so cheap you've got a great lifestyle career and you feel pretty good. Sounds like many of these attorneys are happy about where they are in life, even if its not what they originally envisioned for their career. But God help those that went to school and paid top $$, and have to "settle" for these jobs, and just hope they can service their massive debt from undergad and law school. Again, its all a matter of where you're coming from.

Yeah, but they aren't hiring people from WVU. The two people interviewed for the article were 1) Formerly unemployed grad from Northwestern 2) Former 7th year associate from Jones Day

[sanetruth]

Interesting article, and you're right, its generally good money for WV. Its all a matter of perspective. If you go to WVU (or elsewhere for that matter) and come out with little or no debt, the cost of living is often so cheap you've got a great lifestyle career and you feel pretty good. Sounds like many of these attorneys are happy about where they are in life, even if its not what they originally envisioned for their career. But God help those that went to school and paid top $$, and have to "settle" for these jobs, and just hope they can service their massive debt from undergad and law school. Again, its all a matter of where you're coming from.

Yeah, but they aren't hiring people from WVU. The two people interviewed for the article were 1) Formerly unemployed grad from Northwestern 2) Former 7th year associate from Jones Day

Yea, unlike the article from a few weeks ago (Is Law School a Losing Game?), the people interviewed in this article aren't from TTT's. This would be unnerving if it didn't sound like they were taking these jobs completely by choice.

[Z3RO]

Interesting article, and you're right, its generally good money for WV. Its all a matter of perspective. If you go to WVU (or elsewhere for that matter) and come out with little or no debt, the cost of living is often so cheap you've got a great lifestyle career and you feel pretty good. Sounds like many of these attorneys are happy about where they are in life, even if its not what they originally envisioned for their career. But God help those that went to school and paid top $$, and have to "settle" for these jobs, and just hope they can service their massive debt from undergad and law school. Again, its all a matter of where you're coming from.

Yeah, but they aren't hiring people from WVU. The two people interviewed for the article were 1) Formerly unemployed grad from Northwestern 2) Former 7th year associate from Jones Day

Yea, unlike the article from a few weeks ago (Is Law School a Losing Game?), the people interviewed in this article aren't from TTT's. This would be unnerving if it didn't sound like they were taking these jobs completely by choice.

Right. The NU guy said that he had hunted for PI work unsuccessfully first. That's already an unorthodox track at Northwestern, but he's pretty clearly interested in work that doesn't involve 80 hour weeks. I got the same impression from the other person, but I worry that their apparent happiness might be post-hoc justification.

Also, I wonder whether these permanent associates are being counted in NLJ 250 hiring stats.

[cpajd]

Interesting article, and you're right, its generally good money for WV. Its all a matter of perspective. If you go to WVU (or elsewhere for that matter) and come out with little or no debt, the cost of living is often so cheap you've got a great lifestyle career and you feel pretty good. Sounds like many of these attorneys are happy about where they are in life, even if its not what they originally envisioned for their career. But God help those that went to school and paid top $$, and have to "settle" for these jobs, and just hope they can service their massive debt from undergad and law school. Again, its all a matter of where you're coming from.

Yeah, but they aren't hiring people from WVU. The two people interviewed for the article were 1) Formerly unemployed grad from Northwestern 2) Former 7th year associate from Jones Day

Yea, unlike the article from a few weeks ago (Is Law School a Losing Game?), the people interviewed in this article aren't from TTT's. This would be unnerving if it didn't sound like they were taking these jobs completely by choice.

Its unclear where most of their hires are coming from school-wise. Its a fair point though that at least one is from Northwestern. If that person took on a bunch of debt, as I said "God help them." Not sure that Wheeling, WV is likely to represent a high concentration of Top 14 grads though. The article didn't really get into those details.

[quakeroats]

One Northwestern grad's artful turn of phrase:

Lower salaries make it even more difficult for newly minted lawyers to pay off their law school debt — like the $150,000 in loans that David Perry accumulated upon graduation from Northwestern University School of Law in 2009.
Mr. Perry, 37, became a career associate at Orrick after unsuccessfully seeking public service work (which would offer the option of loan forgiveness). But he says he loves his “lifestyle job,” which enables him to work from home and spend time with his infant son while still doing interesting work.
“I didn’t have the strong desire to make loads of cash,” he said.

[AreJay711]

Well at least they put these positions in a cheap location instead of in one of the main offices. It is a pretty good idea and a job at 60K is a lot better than no job I guess.

[RVP11]

I don't get the problem - non-partner track jobs like these have always existed, now they're just being put in an affordable location. 65k in WV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 65k (and being a total second class citizen) in NYC.

[Flips88]

At least I have a road map for when I strike out at finding a PI job

[quakeroats]

Its unclear where most of their hires are coming from school-wise. Its a fair point though that at least one is from Northwestern. If that person took on a bunch of debt, as I said "God help them." Not sure that Wheeling, WV is likely to represent a high concentration of Top 14 grads though. The article didn't really get into those details.

From their website:
Capital University x2
Akron
UVA
Case Western
Georgetown x2
Pittsburgh x6
Duquesne x3
John Marshall (it doesn't say which one)
Rutgers
Cooley
Boston College
Dayton (grad was also part of the "Lady of the Golden Horseshoe" Society)
Cornell
Penn

The Northwestern guy wasn't listed, and the WV site is the only office that refers to function rather than city or region.

[09042014]

Why are people in this thread surprised that t14 grads strike out and end up in shit law?

What sucks about this is, if it's all doc review, they are limiting their careers by not learning. Though that 7th year associate seems to be doing this as a mommy-track position.

[Flips88]

They have a Chicago office apparently:http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-perry/8/802/a83

[quakeroats]

Why are people in this thread surprised that t14 grads strike out and end up in shit law?

What sucks about this is, if it's all doc review, they are limiting their careers by not learning. Though that 7th year associate seems to be doing this as a mommy-track position.

Eh, the associate mommy track usually starts well before the 7th year. I suspect there's more to the story.

[Flips88]

Why are people in this thread surprised that t14 grads strike out and end up in shit law?

What sucks about this is, if it's all doc review, they are limiting their careers by not learning. Though that 7th year associate seems to be doing this as a mommy-track position.

Also the 37 year old NU grad is real smart popping out a kid right when he's about to graduate with $150,000 of debt in an abysmal economy.

[09042014]

Why are people in this thread surprised that t14 grads strike out and end up in shit law?

What sucks about this is, if it's all doc review, they are limiting their careers by not learning. Though that 7th year associate seems to be doing this as a mommy-track position.

Eh, the associate mommy track usually starts well before the 7th year. I suspect there's more to the story.

Yea after 7 years you get fired from big law if you don't make partner. 7 years is actually above normal.

[quakeroats]

For those unfamiliar with what it takes to become a Lady (or Knight) of the Golden Horseshoe and why it should definitely be mentioned in a firm bio:

"One of the highlights of the eighth-grade year is the opportunity for a student to become a Knight or Lady of the Golden Horseshoe. This prestigious program takes its name from the golden horseshoes given to the early explorers of West Virginia."

"Each year 221 eighth-grade students are honored for their knowledge of the state in a one-day ceremony held in Charleston. The Golden Horseshoe winners have outscored their classmates in school and county wide [sic] testing competitions and made top scores on a West Virginia Department of Education test which measures their grasp of West Virginia Studies. Students also write an essay focusing on some aspect of West Virginia current events."

http://wvde.state.wv.us/goldenhorseshoe/about.html

[Flips88]

For those unfamiliar with what it takes to become a Lady (or Knight) of the Golden Horseshoe and why it should definitely be mentioned in a firm bio:

"One of the highlights of the eighth-grade year is the opportunity for a student to become a Knight or Lady of the Golden Horseshoe. This prestigious program takes its name from the golden horseshoes given to the early explorers of West Virginia."

"Each year 221 eighth-grade students are honored for their knowledge of the state in a one-day ceremony held in Charleston. The Golden Horseshoe winners have outscored their classmates in school and county wide [sic] testing competitions and made top scores on a West Virginia Department of Education test which measures their grasp of West Virginia Studies. Students also write an essay focusing on some aspect of West Virginia current events."

http://wvde.state.wv.us/goldenhorseshoe/about.html

They have something from when they were 8th grade on the law resume???

[xcountryjunkie]

For those unfamiliar with what it takes to become a Lady (or Knight) of the Golden Horseshoe and why it should definitely be mentioned in a firm bio:

"One of the highlights of the eighth-grade year is the opportunity for a student to become a Knight or Lady of the Golden Horseshoe. This prestigious program takes its name from the golden horseshoes given to the early explorers of West Virginia."

"Each year 221 eighth-grade students are honored for their knowledge of the state in a one-day ceremony held in Charleston. The Golden Horseshoe winners have outscored their classmates in school and county wide [sic] testing competitions and made top scores on a West Virginia Department of Education test which measures their grasp of West Virginia Studies. Students also write an essay focusing on some aspect of West Virginia current events."

http://wvde.state.wv.us/goldenhorseshoe/about.html

They have something from when they were 8th grade on the law resume???

Ridiculous. Plus, she's listing "law clerk" jobs at a corporation and a small firm as "clerkships." That's a bit disingenuous.

Can anyone explain how a Cooley graduate got a job at a V50? I don't care if it's doc review in WV, that still seems implausible!

[TTH]

For those unfamiliar with what it takes to become a Lady (or Knight) of the Golden Horseshoe and why it should definitely be mentioned in a firm bio:

"One of the highlights of the eighth-grade year is the opportunity for a student to become a Knight or Lady of the Golden Horseshoe. This prestigious program takes its name from the golden horseshoes given to the early explorers of West Virginia."

"Each year 221 eighth-grade students are honored for their knowledge of the state in a one-day ceremony held in Charleston. The Golden Horseshoe winners have outscored their classmates in school and county wide [sic] testing competitions and made top scores on a West Virginia Department of Education test which measures their grasp of West Virginia Studies. Students also write an essay focusing on some aspect of West Virginia current events."

http://wvde.state.wv.us/goldenhorseshoe/about.html

They have something from when they were 8th grade on the law resume???

As someone who narrowly missed induction into the Order of the Golden Horseshoe, I only wish I could list this on my resume.

Okay, not really. That's fucking ridiculous.

[cpajd]

Its unclear where most of their hires are coming from school-wise. Its a fair point though that at least one is from Northwestern. If that person took on a bunch of debt, as I said "God help them." Not sure that Wheeling, WV is likely to represent a high concentration of Top 14 grads though. The article didn't really get into those details.

From their website:
Capital University x2
Akron
UVA
Case Western
Georgetown x2
Pittsburgh x6
Duquesne x3
John Marshall (it doesn't say which one)
Rutgers
Cooley
Boston College
Dayton (grad was also part of the "Lady of the Golden Horseshoe" Society)
Cornell
Penn

The Northwestern guy wasn't listed, and the WV site is the only office that refers to function rather than city or region.

So there are more employees from schools that aren't ranked in the Top 100 than those who attended Top 14.

[TTH]

Its unclear where most of their hires are coming from school-wise. Its a fair point though that at least one is from Northwestern. If that person took on a bunch of debt, as I said "God help them." Not sure that Wheeling, WV is likely to represent a high concentration of Top 14 grads though. The article didn't really get into those details.

From their website:
Capital University x2
Akron
UVA
Case Western
Georgetown x2
Pittsburgh x6
Duquesne x3
John Marshall (it doesn't say which one)
Rutgers
Cooley
Boston College
Dayton (grad was also part of the "Lady of the Golden Horseshoe" Society)
Cornell
Penn

The Northwestern guy wasn't listed, and the WV site is the only office that refers to function rather than city or region.

So there are more employees from schools that aren't ranked in the Top 100 than those who attended Top 14.

Yeah, as I understand it, it's mainly an outlet for WVU/Pitt grads. Kinda surprised that WVU's not represented on the list, since I know there are some working there. I wonder if there are attorneys there who aren't "career associates" and those are the ones doing straight doc review.

[bdubs]

Yeah, as I understand it, it's mainly an outlet for WVU/Pitt grads. Kinda surprised that WVU's not represented on the list, since I know there are some working there. I wonder if there are attorneys there who aren't "career associates" and those are the ones doing straight doc review.

They are probably contract attorneys.

[Flips88]

Dear NYT, Above the Law wrote about this 2 years ago: http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/sign-of- ... -students/