How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner? Forum

[Cinderella]

What is a funnel offer? Any chance you'll share what PDs do this?

[leobowski]

What is a funnel offer? Any chance you'll share what PDs do this?

Sorry, not willing to out myself. It was a state PD in a mid-sized city. By "funnel offer", I mean a post-grad employment offer to someone who was a 2L summer intern that carried a caseload.

[Cinderella]

Oh, ok. I thought it was something fancy.

FWIW, the NYU handbook on PSLawNet says that "the surest way to get an offer from [a Public Defender] office is to spend a summer there." So, while it may not be a sure thing, and while offices may hire from outside the intern pool, my understanding is that interning gives one a significant boost in the hiring process at many offices.

[Anonymous User]

1L here. I would love to be a prosecution gunner. I just got a call from the DA's office in the city in which I will be living during the summer. The caller left a message requesting an interview. I am super excited because this is definitely my first choice; however, I have already accepted an internship with a judge (state court criminal division). I would love the chance to work at the DA's office, but I do not want to reject the judge. Would the DA interview me to intern during the school year? Could splitting be a possible option? Obviously, I do not want to waste the DA's time with an interview for a position that I could not accept if offered. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[forty-two]

1L here. I would love to be a prosecution gunner. I just got a call from the DA's office in the city in which I will be living during the summer. The caller left a message requesting an interview. I am super excited because this is definitely my first choice; however, I have already accepted an internship with a judge (state court criminal division). I would love the chance to work at the DA's office, but I do not want to reject the judge. Would the DA interview me to intern during the school year? Could splitting be a possible option? Obviously, I do not want to waste the DA's time with an interview for a position that I could not accept if offered. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I would probably call and explain that, while you would love to work there, you already accepted an internship with the judge. Then I would ask if it would be possible to interview for an internship during the school year. A friend of mine did this a few weeks ago and it turned out well. Good luck!!!

[leobowski]

Oh, ok. I thought it was something fancy.

FWIW, the NYU handbook on PSLawNet says that "the surest way to get an offer from [a Public Defender] office is to spend a summer there." So, while it may not be a sure thing, and while offices may hire from outside the intern pool, my understanding is that interning gives one a significant boost in the hiring process at many offices.

Yeah. You basically have to intern as a rising 3L, do a good job handling your clients and conducting yourself in court, and cross your fingers. This is the single most important factor with PD jobs. Grades and all that other crap doesn't really matter outside of super-competitive offices (NYC appellate defender comes to mind).

[Tanicius]

Oh, ok. I thought it was something fancy.

FWIW, the NYU handbook on PSLawNet says that "the surest way to get an offer from [a Public Defender] office is to spend a summer there." So, while it may not be a sure thing, and while offices may hire from outside the intern pool, my understanding is that interning gives one a significant boost in the hiring process at many offices.

Yeah. You basically have to intern as a rising 3L, do a good job handling your clients and conducting yourself in court, and cross your fingers. This is the single most important factor with PD jobs. Grades and all that other crap doesn't really matter outside of super-competitive offices (NYC appellate defender comes to mind).

I love the practicality of PD and DA offices. I think grades, as a measurement of your ability to work with case law, are a much more appropriate way to sort out candidates at an appellate office. Working in trial court, though, grades are pretty much useless.

[sillyboots]

I love the practicality of PD and DA offices. I think grades, as a measurement of your ability to work with case law, are a much more appropriate way to sort out candidates at an appellate office. Working in trial court, though, grades are pretty much useless.

I actually never thought about working at the appellate divisions of PD offices. Does anyone know if these sorts of jobs are usually available after graduation? I have some interest in PD work but always figured I'd be better doing more abstract things and writing briefs than I would be convincing a jury of anything.

[leobowski]

I actually never thought about working at the appellate divisions of PD offices. Does anyone know if these sorts of jobs are usually available after graduation? I have some interest in PD work but always figured I'd be better doing more abstract things and writing briefs than I would be convincing a jury of anything.

There are a handful of these jobs available, but don't worry about it too much unless you have the credentials to land a fed clerkship along with a ton of experience in the area. It's sort of like DOJ Honors or San Diego FPD; it's great if the stars align and it happens, but don't count on it or plan on it.

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys, I have Summer offers at clark county nv (las Vegas) and Travis county tx (Austin). I like Austin better but think it might be easier to get hired at Vegas after graduation. Does anyone know anything about these offices and any advice on how to make this choice? I have to decide like tomorrow.

[barry]

How much do ties matter to da/pd offices? Is it a good idea to get a summer job in the state you want to be in even if it's not necessarily the city you want to be in?

[Cinderella]

How much do ties matter to da/pd offices? Is it a good idea to get a summer job in the state you want to be in even if it's not necessarily the city you want to be in?

My thoughts: It's less important for big metro areas, like NYC, DC, Miami; crucial in smaller/regional/flyover places; somewhere in between for larger cities in insular places, like Chicago, Philly, or LA. So, it will depend on where exactly your target office is, what previous ties you have to the area, etc.

I only have a limited knowledge base though, and am really curious what others have to say about this.

[seatown12]

How much do ties matter to da/pd offices? Is it a good idea to get a summer job in the state you want to be in even if it's not necessarily the city you want to be in?

My thoughts: It's less important for big metro areas, like NYC, DC, Miami; crucial in smaller/regional/flyover places; somewhere in between for larger cities in insular places, like Chicago, Philly, or LA. So, it will depend on where exactly your target office is, what previous ties you have to the area, etc.

I only have a limited knowledge base though, and am really curious what others have to say about this.

You are mostly right but it seems to be VERY important for NY offices. At the EJW fair the Bronx Defender representative took notes when candidates mentioned their ties to the Bronx, and the person from Brooklyn Defender who interviewed me asked why I wanted to work in Brooklyn specifically (most just ask "why our organization").

Organizations that interview at national career fairs, or fairs outside their region, tend to care less. Other offices just seem to give an advantage to former interns. FWIW the various Seattle PDs had NO interest in me despite the fact that I lived my whole life there before law school.

[seatown12]

Hey guys, I have Summer offers at clark county nv (las Vegas) and Travis county tx (Austin). I like Austin better but think it might be easier to get hired at Vegas after graduation. Does anyone know anything about these offices and any advice on how to make this choice? I have to decide like tomorrow.

Clark County seems to hire fairly regularly, but they won't even accept your application until you are barred. I don't know anything at all about Texas offices.

To be honest I don't think I would be very excited about living in Vegas, so unless you have serious cause for concern about the job situation in Austin I'd probably advise that route.

[Cinderella]

Re NYC: Is this becase of the competiveness of the Bronx and Brooklyn Defenders and/or the focus on improving their specific communties? Are all of the NYC PDs (there are like 7) this focused on ties?

Re Seattle: That seems odd. Why? Out of state/city school? Were you applying for a job, but did not intern there?

[Jeremyl]

I've seen a lot about hypos being part of the interview at some offices. Are these testing substantive criminal law, criminal procedure, ethics, or some sort of combination? Is there a thread on here that provides examples?

[Anonymous User]

Hi there,
I wasn't sure if I should have started a new thread for this, but from what I've read it looks like the people who read this thread would know best re my situation. My question is regarding the relative advantages of taking a year off at 28 years old to work in PD related entry level job over enrolling in 1L this fall.

I just finished my ug this past fall. I'm currently in the interview process for a full time job in a city I have ties to and care about. However I would eventually like to make my way (back to) CA. There's good pay and benefits, and I would be working under the guidance of lawyers who do the work I eventually want to do. If I take a year off to work at this job I will have just turned 30 yo by the time I begin my first semester in 2013. I admittedly have anxiety about this but the real issue for me is that from what I've read ITT, it seems that WE pre-ls can be a factor in competitiveness for 1L summer positions and onwards. I'm not sure if this is the case for me given that the my resume already has some public interest work and service (though none of it full time). And assuming I'm accepted this cycle, a big reason I would defer a year to work would be to bolster my competitiveness for PD positions.

I've applied this cycle, but very late. Part of thinking about this decision is my LSAT score: I scored poorly in December so I held my applications for a 168 in February. GPA: ~3.7 (~3.9 degree school/upward trend blah.) Person of color, but not URM. My top choice is UCLA (mostly for its crs program)-- UCLA's likely a long shot this cycle given my very median scores and lateness. I also applied to farther reaches: NW, CHI, C. If I do get the job/take off another year I would hope to retake the lsat in June/October and perhaps get an additional LOR from a PD attorney.

Ah any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Ded Precedent]

If you think you can boost your LSAT score and you get a job in a PD office I don't really see any argument for choosing to go this year instead of waiting. It will be a good experience, a bullet on your resume and it will give you time to study for a retake.

[Jeremyl]

If you think you can boost your LSAT score and you get a job in a PD office I don't really see any argument for choosing to go this year instead of waiting. It will be a good experience, a bullet on your resume and it will give you time to study for a retake.

This. Plus you'll be able to apply earlier next cycle, which at the very least means you'll likely get more scholarship money. I know, at your age, you may be eager to get through school and start, but it seems like the benefits of waiting outweigh the negatives

[target]

To the long anon. poster above:

I agree that if you can boost your LSAT up, do it. I think at your age, you should shoot for the highest rank school that offers you the most money. Working in a PD office now is nice experience, but chances are it is still a non-legal job. So, your starting salary will still be at an entry-level PD

[Anonymous User]

Local DA office called me earlier today while I was in class and now it's after business hours (I'll just call back when I know they're there.) Already interviewed with them, now the head of a division I'm interested wants to talk. No clue if it's an offer, a phone interview, or arrangement for further interview. All I now is I am damn excited and damn nervous!

What are DA office interviews generally like? I have one coming up soon.

You should be prepared to answer questions like why DA office/prosecution work? Why here? Why not PD? And what do you want to gain out of this internship?

Anon from first quote.

I had no hypos in my aforementioned original interview. It was absolutely identical to every other interview I've ever had, oddly enough. Yeah, there were questions about DA, why here, etc., but no PD question. I am aware that this is different from most people's experiences; maybe that's just how they do it there.

Also, follow-up: The head attorney asked me one or two questions about my new experiences and why I want to work in that division, and got an offer.

[seatown12]

Hi there,
I wasn't sure if I should have started a new thread for this, but from what I've read it looks like the people who read this thread would know best re my situation. My question is regarding the relative advantages of taking a year off at 28 years old to work in PD related entry level job over enrolling in 1L this fall.

You should wait a year and apply EARLY; 30 is only one year older than 29. The "entry-level PD job" (investigator? legal assistant?) won't be very beneficial for getting jobs, even as a 1L, but you can save up some cash and that's always a good idea going into law school.

Also, if you wanna do PD work you should maybe think about a lower ranked school with a fat scholarship rather than UCLA. The CRS program might sound good on paper but that knowledge won't help you get a job nor will it make you better at the job.

[Jeremyl]

Hey guys, I have Summer offers at clark county nv (las Vegas) and Travis county tx (Austin). I like Austin better but think it might be easier to get hired at Vegas after graduation. Does anyone know anything about these offices and any advice on how to make this choice? I have to decide like tomorrow.

Austin doesn't hire out of law school. You have to have either 5 years of experience or 3 years at the city attorney's office

[Ded Precedent]

Austin doesn't hire out of law school.

How do you know?

[Jeremyl]

Austin doesn't hire out of law school.

How do you know?

My career services office. I have also seen it somewhere on this blog of a Travis co. DA

http://www.daconfidential.com/?m=0