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Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:10 pm
by Anonymous User
So I have been offered to be a paralegal clerk at Baker Botts for next year (I have deferred for one year from LS) and I was wondering if that year will help me to get a job there after law school? Dallas Office
I have a job offer in Austin as a clerk for a smaller law firm (think 40-50 attorneys), but would save more money for law school from there (live with gf, split a cheap rent, etc).
I have no interest in working at this smaller firm after LS but would LOVE to work for Baker Botts after. It is worth doing as I will be saving less and be 4 hours away from the GF (which means I will have 8 hours of driving every other weekend).
Let me know what everyone thinks!
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:16 pm
by rose711
Do a great job and impress everyone. It will not guarantee you a job because you will still need grades - but you will be a known quantity to them. So, it can help you.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:17 pm
by Sauer Grapes
I think that it may help if you meet all their other criteria. What I mean by that is that they won't hire you just because of that, but you'll still have to meet their GPA cutoff, be liked at OCI, be liked during your callback, etc. However, it won't hurt and the fact you'll know people and that you'll be able to demonstrate that you know about the firm should be a positive.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:19 pm
by Anonymous User
So would that be better than saving more money for LS and working at a firm I would likely not even apply to?
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:20 pm
by Anonymous User
I recommend not putting such a strain emotionally and financially on yourself for only an outside shot of forging a strong enough connection at BB to leverage during OCI. I don't think the paralegal experience at BB will in any way by itself help you over a paralegal experience at a smaller firm.
It will still come down to your grades and law school, but sure at the margin a good personal connection will get you in if things are roughly equal between you and your competitors. You may also be in a better position at the call-back stage since you may actually know the attorneys you'll be interviewing with. Of course if you do a poor job at the firm, that would make things worse for you.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:22 pm
by rose711
Anonymous User wrote:So would that be better than saving more money for LS and working at a firm I would likely not even apply to?
Yes - you should be able to make some contacts there who will at least provide references for you that will help you more than the other firm will. If you think you would love to work for them, this gives you a chance to see what the firm is actually like, it may not be what you think, and a chance to meet some people.
But, to help you make a good decision, how much money are we talking about here? How supportive is your SO?
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:30 pm
by MrKappus
rose711 wrote:Do a great job and impress everyone. It will not guarantee you a job because you will still need grades - but you will be a known quantity to them. So, it can help you.
This. It will not hurt (obviously), may help in a small way, but at the end of the day you'll either have the grades for BB or you won't.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:56 pm
by BeenDidThat
Anonymous User wrote:So would that be better than saving more money for LS and working at a firm I would likely not even apply to?
This is the kind of thing we can't answer. It depends on how much you care about having to drive a lot to visit the SO & how much $ is at stake in the short-run versus how much you value the exceedingly small boost working @ BB would give you.
Your utility function is your utility function, not mine.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:59 pm
by Moxie
Do whichever you want to do. While there's a small chance you could make connections at BB, your happiness is not worth it (since it seems like you'd rather be close to your SO).
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:12 pm
by DoubleChecks
um, what law school are you going to? i honestly think this matters quite a bit
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:18 pm
by Renzo
DoubleChecks wrote:um, what law school are you going to? i honestly think this matters quite a bit
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:23 pm
by MrKappus
Renzo wrote:DoubleChecks wrote:um, what law school are you going to? i honestly think this matters quite a bit
Actually for the purposes of OP's question ("Will paralegaling at BB get me in?") it doesn't really matter. It matters for OP's general prospects, but he probably knows that.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:23 pm
by SuperCool23
How did you hear about this job or program?
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:27 pm
by Anonymous User
I would take the gig in Austin. There is a really good chance that you will be able to work for that firm in year 2 and 3 part time, probably at $30 per hour or so. I made about 2K per month during my 2 and 3L years. Downside: hard to be on LR, work and maintain a strong social life during 2L. Sure does make life easier to have money and/or reduce amount you borrow. The borrowing and living really cheap gets old.
This assumes you are going to UT; otherwise don't read!
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:30 pm
by Renzo
MrKappus wrote:Renzo wrote:DoubleChecks wrote:um, what law school are you going to? i honestly think this matters quite a bit
Actually for the purposes of OP's question ("Will paralegaling at BB get me in?") it doesn't really matter. It matters for OP's general prospects, but he probably knows that.
No, it still matters. They're not hiring the OP from some TTT, even if he/she were the paraclerk equivalent of Jimi Hendrix. It might make a marginal difference to the OP's career outlook, assuming biglaw was otherwise realistic; but if it isn't, there's no reason to sacrifice the increased earnings at the smaller firm.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:32 pm
by FiveSermon
Renzo wrote:MrKappus wrote:Renzo wrote:DoubleChecks wrote:um, what law school are you going to? i honestly think this matters quite a bit
Actually for the purposes of OP's question ("Will paralegaling at BB get me in?") it doesn't really matter. It matters for OP's general prospects, but he probably knows that.
No, it still matters. They're not hiring the OP from some TTT, even if he/she were the paraclerk equivalent of Jimi Hendrix. It might make a marginal difference to the OP's career outlook, assuming biglaw was otherwise realistic; but if it isn't, there's no reason to sacrifice the increased earnings at the smaller firm.
This is probably true.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:35 pm
by DoubleChecks
Renzo wrote:MrKappus wrote:Renzo wrote:DoubleChecks wrote:um, what law school are you going to? i honestly think this matters quite a bit
Actually for the purposes of OP's question ("Will paralegaling at BB get me in?") it doesn't really matter. It matters for OP's general prospects, but he probably knows that.
No, it still matters. They're not hiring the OP from some TTT, even if he/she were the paraclerk equivalent of Jimi Hendrix. It might make a marginal difference to the OP's career outlook, assuming biglaw was otherwise realistic; but if it isn't, there's no reason to sacrifice the increased earnings at the smaller firm.
+1 yeah if OP going to say, UT, i feel the value of clerking at BB dallas (if BB his ultimate goal) just went up a bit...if it is STCL (no offense STCL), the value just went down a bit
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:45 pm
by MrKappus
Renzo wrote:MrKappus wrote:Renzo wrote:DoubleChecks wrote:um, what law school are you going to? i honestly think this matters quite a bit
Actually for the purposes of OP's question ("Will paralegaling at BB get me in?") it doesn't really matter. It matters for OP's general prospects, but he probably knows that.
No, it still matters. They're not hiring the OP from some TTT, even if he/she were the paraclerk equivalent of Jimi Hendrix. It might make a marginal difference to the OP's career outlook, assuming biglaw was otherwise realistic; but if it isn't, there's no reason to sacrifice the increased earnings at the smaller firm.
Again. No. I went to BB's website and found
5 4 associates from Texas Tech School of Law. That's just one third tier example. For the purposes of OP's question, his school does not matter. His grades will be dispositive. What those grades need to be will obviously vary tremendously.
*Edited for typo
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:47 pm
by FiveSermon
Again. No. I went to BB's website and found 5 4 associates from Texas Tech School of Law. That's just one third tier example. For the purposes of OP's question, his school does not matter. His grades will be dispositive. What those grades need to be will obviously vary tremendously.
*Edited for typo
I have to ask, were these TTT grads hired way way back before ITE?
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:50 pm
by Renzo
MrKappus wrote:
Again. No. I went to BB's website and found 5 4 associates from Texas Tech School of Law. That's just one third tier example. For the purposes of OP's question, his school does not matter. His grades will be dispositive. What those grades need to be will obviously vary tremendously.
Oh. Well, that changes everything. Four associates in a roughly 600 attorney firm is not at all a trivial number that would round down to 0%
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:52 pm
by DoubleChecks
MrKappus wrote:Renzo wrote:
No, it still matters. They're not hiring the OP from some TTT, even if he/she were the paraclerk equivalent of Jimi Hendrix. It might make a marginal difference to the OP's career outlook, assuming biglaw was otherwise realistic; but if it isn't, there's no reason to sacrifice the increased earnings at the smaller firm.
Again. No. I went to BB's website and found
5 4 associates from Texas Tech School of Law. That's just one third tier example. For the purposes of OP's question, his school does not matter. His grades will be dispositive. What those grades need to be will obviously vary tremendously.
*Edited for typo
No, still matters. How old are these associates? Was this ITE? What were their ranks? I'm not saying it matters MORE than his grades per se. But if these Texas Tech people were either pre-ITE or were ranked 1 at their school, like I said, the
value of OP going to paralegal for BB drops (assuming he's at said school). I'm not saying it goes to 0...just value drops a lot, so it certainly
matters.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:55 pm
by FiveSermon
DoubleChecks wrote:MrKappus wrote:Renzo wrote:
No, it still matters. They're not hiring the OP from some TTT, even if he/she were the paraclerk equivalent of Jimi Hendrix. It might make a marginal difference to the OP's career outlook, assuming biglaw was otherwise realistic; but if it isn't, there's no reason to sacrifice the increased earnings at the smaller firm.
Again. No. I went to BB's website and found
5 4 associates from Texas Tech School of Law. That's just one third tier example. For the purposes of OP's question, his school does not matter. His grades will be dispositive. What those grades need to be will obviously vary tremendously.
*Edited for typo
No, still matters. How old are these associates? Was this ITE? What were their ranks? I'm not saying it matters MORE than his grades per se. But if these Texas Tech people were either pre-ITE or were ranked 1 at their school, like I said, the
value of OP going to paralegal for BB drops (assuming he's at said school). I'm not saying it goes to 0...just value drops a lot, so it certainly
matters.
Just checked the four associates. Three were summa cum laude, one was cum laude but the chick was African American.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:55 pm
by BeenDidThat
MrKappus wrote:
Again. No. I went to BB's website and found 5 4 associates from Texas Tech School of Law. That's just one third tier example. For the purposes of OP's question, his school does not matter. His grades will be dispositive. What those grades need to be will obviously vary tremendously.
*Edited for typo
FTR, I assumed UT in previous comment. Shouldn't have.
But the question is quite relevant. If you need to be top10% + LR to get into BB (see, Tex Tech, UH, others), then the marginal boost of paralegaling won't matter as much because of the low chance of hitting those grades.
If, on the other hand, OP is going to UT, the moderate boost might matter more. Say top 30% has a chance. He hits that, plus paralegal, plus is pretty normal, then BB in the bag.
Basically, the OP's school matters because of the higher chance of the paralegaling experience having any bearing whatsoever on the hiring decision. If he doesn't make the grade cutoff, it won't matter, and from non-UT's (or OOS equivalent), that's a very likely occurrence.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:57 pm
by MrKappus
DoubleChecks wrote:MrKappus wrote:Renzo wrote:
No, it still matters. They're not hiring the OP from some TTT, even if he/she were the paraclerk equivalent of Jimi Hendrix. It might make a marginal difference to the OP's career outlook, assuming biglaw was otherwise realistic; but if it isn't, there's no reason to sacrifice the increased earnings at the smaller firm.
Again. No. I went to BB's website and found
5 4 associates from Texas Tech School of Law. That's just one third tier example. For the purposes of OP's question, his school does not matter. His grades will be dispositive. What those grades need to be will obviously vary tremendously.
*Edited for typo
No, still matters. How old are these associates? Was this ITE? What were their ranks? I'm not saying it matters MORE than his grades per se. But if these Texas Tech people were either pre-ITE or were ranked 1 at their school, like I said, the
value of OP going to paralegal for BB drops (assuming he's at said school). I'm not saying it goes to 0...just value drops a lot, so it certainly
matters.
It does not matter for the purposes of OP's question, which is "Will a year at Baker Botts help me get into the firm after I graduate?" It does matter if the question is "Is it wise, considering all of my circumstances, to move to Dallas and work for Baker Botts?" But I didn't see that question in the OP. Of course OP should do a cost-benefit of the move to Dallas, taking into account his school, how competitive his LSAT predicts he'll be, and any one of a dozen other factors. For sure.
Re: Will a year at Baker Botts help get me in?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:00 pm
by FiveSermon
MrKappus wrote:DoubleChecks wrote:MrKappus wrote:Renzo wrote:
No, it still matters. They're not hiring the OP from some TTT, even if he/she were the paraclerk equivalent of Jimi Hendrix. It might make a marginal difference to the OP's career outlook, assuming biglaw was otherwise realistic; but if it isn't, there's no reason to sacrifice the increased earnings at the smaller firm.
Again. No. I went to BB's website and found
5 4 associates from Texas Tech School of Law. That's just one third tier example. For the purposes of OP's question, his school does not matter. His grades will be dispositive. What those grades need to be will obviously vary tremendously.
*Edited for typo
No, still matters. How old are these associates? Was this ITE? What were their ranks? I'm not saying it matters MORE than his grades per se. But if these Texas Tech people were either pre-ITE or were ranked 1 at their school, like I said, the
value of OP going to paralegal for BB drops (assuming he's at said school). I'm not saying it goes to 0...just value drops a lot, so it certainly
matters.
It does not matter for the purposes of OP's question, which is "Will a year at Baker Botts help me get into the firm after I graduate?" It does matter if the question is "Is it wise, considering all of my circumstances, to move to Dallas and work for Baker Botts?" But I didn't see that question in the OP. Of course OP should do a cost-benefit of the move to Dallas, taking into account his school, how competitive his LSAT predicts he'll be, and any one of a dozen other factors. For sure.
If OP went to Cooley it would matter.