C & F fear Forum

[Anonymous User]

If a firm that I used to work for backstabs me and accuses me of something without substantial/ clear/ convincing evidence, will the bar examiners act as fact-finders to investigate the matter?

no, I was not discharged on disciplinary matters.no court records whatever. I finished the job, got paid and left. I just a very bad relationship with a bunch of bitchy coworkers.

[Anonymous User]

I'm worried about something like this too- not any kind of disciplinary action, just getting a bad reference. I have no record of any kind and I have a bunch of good references, but I had one legal internship that I left and my boss definitely did not like me. Do I have to list this half of a summer job on my application? Will it matter?

[zomginternets]

At least in CA, they will act as fact-finders, but any reasonable doubts are resolved in the applicant's favor.

Did they accuse you of something morally turpitudinous? If not, don't worry; plenty of people don't get along with their employers. If they accused you of stealing or something along those lines, then the State Bar might hold a hearing about it, but if they just accused you of being lazy/being an asshole/etc. (or something similar), then the Bar doesn't care.

[Anonymous User]

no stealing. nothing worth stealing in that shitty firm. Just a lot of rumors and backstabbing. I had a tough time in my family, and did not socialize ... etc.

actually, they violated the federal law by withholding my W2 form. I think I will add an affidavit in my bar application about it.

[vanwinkle]

Okay. So you weren't terminated with cause but you left voluntarily? Were you ever formally reprimanded? "Rumors and backstabbing" don't constitute negative employment history. If you weren't fired and weren't written up then there's very little to worry about.

If they accuse you of whatever during the C&F process, the first obvious question will be "Why didn't you discipline or fire him/her for this when it happened?" I doubt they have an answer that both portrays you negatively enough to disrupt C&F and justifies doing nothing to you for it.

If they put paper on you that's another matter.

[vanwinkle]

I'm worried about something like this too- not any kind of disciplinary action, just getting a bad reference. I have no record of any kind and I have a bunch of good references, but I had one legal internship that I left and my boss definitely did not like me. Do I have to list this half of a summer job on my application? Will it matter?

I don't know how many references you do/don't have to list. However, I do know that if an employer alleges or even implies untrue facts about your employment history in a reference, you could possibly sue them for defamation. The law varies by state and circumstance, and I'm not sharing this as legal advice for what to do then, but just to illustrate that employers face risks from giving negative references and often try to avoid giving them without a really good reason.

[Anonymous User]

My former company has a policy regarding employment verification: everyone, including people who left the company, cannot comment on your performance. They can only verify your start and end dates, your position, and your salary. The reason is that they are afarid of lawsuits against them. But, if you list your former co-wroker/boss as personal reference, I am not sure if the company policy will apply to them.

[shoeshine]

My former company has a policy regarding employment verification: everyone, including people who left the company, cannot comment on your performance. They can only verify your start and end dates, your position, and your salary. The reason is that they are afarid of lawsuits against them. But, if you list your former co-wroker/boss as personal reference, I am not sure if the company policy will apply to them.

+1
This is the policy at my current and my former employer. At my former company (a fortune 500) we had a carefully worded letter, email, and speech we were supposed to use when we were contacted for references.

[PKSebben]

My former company has a policy regarding employment verification: everyone, including people who left the company, cannot comment on your performance. They can only verify your start and end dates, your position, and your salary. The reason is that they are afarid of lawsuits against them. But, if you list your former co-wroker/boss as personal reference, I am not sure if the company policy will apply to them.

This is pretty standard for most companies. They generally get forms to fill out and nobody wants a paper trail. In NY, for example, those employers complete a form which is given to the applicant who then submits it to the bar as part of their package. You'll know in advance in NY whether you need to gear up or not. I suspect you won't. Other jurisdictions work differently, but still, I find it really unlikely a firm would go to the trouble of screwing with your admission. And if you didn't do anything wrong, then the only thing you are out is the time it takes to explain it to the committee.

I would advise the other anons to fully disclose all employment. I would advise the one anon NOT to include his withholding of W2 form beef. It makes you like abrasive (there really isn't a spot for "ways my firm kinda dicked me over" on the application. Disclose the employment, disclose the short but true reasons for leaving (whatever it was), and have that battle in the unlikely event trouble surfaces.