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Does anyone know if Orrick asks for grades during the summer? (And if so, in which offices?)

I'm not expecting my grades to drop much (if at all) but I would like to know. (There are some specific reasons.)

Thanks.

I realize it's indulgent of me to worry about this at all, given how many people didn't get a position for the summer to begin with, but in my indulgent state I am a little anxious and would feel better knowing.

Likewise, if anyone has any advice about Orrick summer programs, that'd be great.

edited out

Stanislaw Carter wrote:Orrick isn't known for attracting the T10, top 10%, law review types, so odds are the mediocre grades that got someone an offer there won't make them offended if those grades became even more mediocre.

Nah this post wasn't at all douchey

Stanislaw Carter wrote:Orrick isn't known for attracting the T10, top 10%, law review types, so odds are the mediocre grades that got someone an offer there won't make them offended if those grades became even more mediocre.

Holy shit.

Douchey for sure, but just being honest. I'm not speaking to the quality of the firm. It's just clear they're not selective in the way V10s are, so it's not as if grades were a huge deal for them in the first place.

I should have phrased it as:

"Grades were not a huge deal for them when they hired you, so they shouldn't be a huge deal now."

Sounds better, I hope.

But what if OP goes to Santa Clara, USF, etc.? Then OP was probably at least top 10%

Also, V10s are probably the firms who care the LEAST about your 2L grades. See 100% offer rates.

Also, V10s are probably the firms who care the LEAST about your 2L grades. See 100% offer rates.

Yeah, but I'm of the opinion that firms don't care about grades (except with some exceptions). I was just saying that if a firm was to care about grades, it wouldn't be a V50 or something of that ilk.

But what if OP goes to Santa Clara, USF, etc.? Then OP was probably at least top 10%

Good point.

RVP11 wrote:But what if OP goes to Santa Clara, USF, etc.? Then OP was probably at least top 10%

Also, V10s are probably the firms who care the LEAST about your 2L grades. See 100% offer rates.

Isn't this self-fulfilling? V10s are also the firms with the highest performers who are the most likely to continue that highest performance so they would hit 100% offer rates even if they cared as much or more about grades than peer firms..

Orrick layed off a massive number of associates during the downturn... Saying that they don't recruit from the top 10%/T10 is a true statement. In fact, its a much nicer way of stating the actual truth: Orrick cannot attract many students with those types of credentials. That said, if a job were not offered to you after your summer (and you didn't get caught fucking a partner's wife doggy style in the women's bathroom of country club at a golf outing, or take off your clothes and streak naked up the fairway), then I would imagine that your no-offer was attributable more to the firm's current finances and far less to your grades.

Kohinoor wrote:

RVP11 wrote:But what if OP goes to Santa Clara, USF, etc.? Then OP was probably at least top 10%

Also, V10s are probably the firms who care the LEAST about your 2L grades. See 100% offer rates.

Isn't this self-fulfilling? V10s are also the firms with the highest performers who are the most likely to continue that highest performance so they would hit 100% offer rates even if they cared as much or more about grades than peer firms..

Plenty of V10 people are merely above average students. DPW/STB/Skadden/Cleary/Weil have their share of T6 Law Review people but also their share of top third-ish people. I'm sure in any summer associate class there's at least one dood who slips to median or below, and they're obviously still getting offers.

Stanislaw Carter wrote:Orrick isn't known for attracting the T10, top 10%, law review types, so odds are the mediocre grades that got someone an offer there won't make them offended if those grades became even more mediocre.

Knock this shit off.

Plenty of V10 people are merely above average students. DPW/STB/Skadden/Cleary/Weil have their share of T6 Law Review people but also their share of top third-ish people. I'm sure in any summer associate class there's at least one dood who slips to median or below, and they're obviously still getting offers.

Yup.

PKSebben wrote:

Stanislaw Carter wrote:Orrick isn't known for attracting the T10, top 10%, law review types, so odds are the mediocre grades that got someone an offer there won't make them offended if those grades became even more mediocre.

Knock this shit off.

Sorry, mang. Will phrase better next time.

Another good way to put it:

At any firm, V10 or otherwise, if you were hired with mediocre grades, they won't no offer you because your grades dropped. They didn't exactly hire you for your grades in the first place.

Stanislaw Carter wrote:Yeah, but I'm of the opinion that firms don't care about grades (except with some exceptions). I was just saying that if a firm was to care about grades, it wouldn't be a V50 or something of that ilk.

I am also of the opinion that firms don't care about grades. But I just think the few exceptions who do are more likely to be the lesser known, less prestigious firms. The only high profile firms I can think of caring are Gibson Dunn and Munger.

In fact, its a much nicer way of stating the actual truth

Eh... it was an objectively douche move on my part. Was tired and couldn't be pissed to rephrase.

Stanislaw Carter wrote:At any firm, V10 or otherwise, if you were hired with mediocre grades, they won't no offer you because your grades dropped. They didn't exactly hire you for your grades in the first place.

Define "mediocre." This could be important to me.

RVP11 wrote:

Stanislaw Carter wrote:At any firm, V10 or otherwise, if you were hired with mediocre grades, they won't no offer you because your grades dropped. They didn't exactly hire you for your grades in the first place.

Define "mediocre." This could be important to me.

Tough to do without offending more people here, so I'll just stop.

Stanislaw Carter wrote:

RVP11 wrote:

Stanislaw Carter wrote:At any firm, V10 or otherwise, if you were hired with mediocre grades, they won't no offer you because your grades dropped. They didn't exactly hire you for your grades in the first place.

Define "mediocre." This could be important to me.

Tough to do without offending more people here, so I'll just stop.

Good plan.

Stanislaw Carter wrote:Orrick isn't known for attracting the T10, top 10%, law review types, so odds are the mediocre grades that got someone an offer there won't make them offended if those grades became even more mediocre.

Maybe not at T10, but there is some range of school where Orrick becomes very selective grades wise and only takes top 20 or top 10%. And ITE, they can probably fill their class with the top 1/3 at CCN if they wanted to. So OPs question didn't really warrant this kind of flippant response.

And even your precious V10 went down to below median at my school before ITE.

Maybe not at T10, but there is some range of school where Orrick becomes very selective grades wise and only takes top 20 or top 10%.

I admitted this point above. You're just repeating stuff now.

And ITE, they can probably fill their class with the top 1/3 at CCN if they wanted to. So OPs question didn't really warrant this kind of flippant response.

Yeah, that's not true.

And even your precious V10 went down to below median at my school before ITE.

Yet another point I made above:

At any firm, V10 or otherwise, if you were hired with mediocre grades, they won't no offer you because your grades dropped. They didn't exactly hire you for your grades in the first place.

My first post might have been harsh on the senses, but let's make some progress here. Calm down and try to make a novel contribution in your next response.

Stanislaw Carter wrote:

Maybe not at T10, but there is some range of school where Orrick becomes very selective grades wise and only takes top 20 or top 10%.

I admitted this point above. You're just repeating stuff now.

And ITE, they can probably fill their class with the top 1/3 at CCN if they wanted to. So OPs question didn't really warrant this kind of flippant response.

Yeah, that's not true.

And even your precious V10 went down to below median at my school before ITE.

Yet another point I made above:

At any firm, V10 or otherwise, if you were hired with mediocre grades, they won't no offer you because your grades dropped. They didn't exactly hire you for your grades in the first place.

My first post might have been harsh on the senses, but let's make some progress here. Calm down and try to make a novel contribution in your next response.

Yes, Orrick could fill their class (of about 30 last summer) with top 1/3 at CCN or higher schools, (or even the top students from T10 schools) from class of 2011. Every firm can be selective right now.

But congratulations, your sentence by sentence response to my post (and then the dismissive comment at the end) shows you still don't really get why what you did was not only flawed analysis, it was bad form. The last thing you should be doing is getting defensive about it.

You may want to review these threads.

--LinkRemoved--

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p3742680

I'm not really getting defensive. And I apologized for the "poor form" above. I'm not going to kiss your feet and apologize more.

Every firm can be selective right now.

This is certainly correct, but the question is: "Along what dimension?" Just because Orrick can't fill their class with top third CCN types, doesn't mean they can't be ultra selective on other dimensions.

And FYI, some V10s picked up slightly below median CCN students even ITE.

Also, I don't know the intended implication of those two links. If it's to say I'm ToTransferOrNot, that's simply not the case. I'm pretty sure he still posts here under his original moniker too.

Stanislaw Carter wrote:I'm not really getting defensive. And I apologized for the "poor form" above. I'm not going to kiss your feet and apologize more.

Every firm can be selective right now.

This is certainly correct, but the question is: "Along what dimension?" Just because Orrick can't fill their class with top third CCN types, doesn't mean they can't be ultra selective on other dimensions.

And FYI, some V10s picked up slightly below median CCN students even ITE.

Also, I don't know the intended implication of those two links. If it's to say I'm ToTransferOrNot, that's simply not the case. I'm pretty sure he still posts here under his original moniker too.

I apologize if I came off as "piling on." I don't think you are TToN.

The point of the two links is that it's very easy to say something stupid, even on the internet, and have it traced back to you offsite. TToN posted one snarky comment about the selectivity of a firm, people took it personally, and his reputation suffered. He was even outed in another thread, although that one was deleted. Your comment actually reminded me of his which is why I posted the threads.

timbs4339 wrote:
Yes, Orrick could fill their class (of about 30 last summer) with top 1/3 at CCN or higher schools

I don't want to debate the merits of Orrick too much, but this statement is a flatly absurd thing to say.

Top 1/3 at CCN is roughly 360 people total (assuming class sizes of 450, 450, 200). You think that Orrick, a firm that looked like it was in real financial trouble 18 months ago, and in no way stands out from the other 50 or so similar biglaw firms, can hire 30 summer associates from that finite pool of 360 top 1/3 CCN student? Come on; if you add up just the NYC offices of just the V5 firms, last year they took 224 summer associates.

I apologize if I came off as "piling on."

No problem. FWIW I grimaced when I reread my post this morning.

Orrick rejected me via a phone call for a 1L summer gig. I have loathed them ever since.