Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades? Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
-
- Posts: 428535
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
I'm not talking about big law here since that's one of the least flexible paths for worming your way in due to the customary hiring process imo, but does anyone have success stories about networking into a decent permanent position, maybe with a smaller firm or gov, without having to show a transcript? I'm below median at my school, I have a good government transactional and regulatory summer internship lined up (but not a good chance of it leading to a permanent position), and my grades probably aren't going to do me any favors, so I'm anticipating a tough job search this summer and next school year.
- holdencaulfield
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:12 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
I got a permanent offer from a firm I clerked for without ever showing them my grades. Didn't take it though.
-
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:14 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
.
Last edited by OldManHunger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Always Credited
- Posts: 2501
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:31 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
smh.OldManHunger wrote:That shit's basically going to haunt you forever. Grades even come up with lateraling. But with enough hustle and networking, I'm sure you'll be able to land something.
- XxSpyKEx
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:48 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
I doubt it happens nowadays at midsize firms. The fall I did OCI (I'm c/o 2011), the CSO at my school was recommending to everyone to send out resumes without listing a GPA and not sending transcripts (which I'm pretty sure was the advice the CSO gave out every year before that -- I don't think they realized exactly how bad the economy was by my 2L fall until after it happened). Basically the advice was to let the school name sell you to midsize firms, and that midsize firms would hire you without caring about your grades because they have a difficult time getting people at schools like this one to apply to their firms... Oh, how times have changed.Anonymous User wrote:I'm not talking about big law here since that's one of the least flexible paths for worming your way in due to the customary hiring process imo, but does anyone have success stories about networking into a decent permanent position, maybe with a smaller firm or gov, without having to show a transcript? I'm below median at my school, I have a good government transactional and regulatory summer internship lined up (but not a good chance of it leading to a permanent position), and my grades probably aren't going to do me any favors, so I'm anticipating a tough job search this summer and next school year.
But, yeah, I think if you network, it's possible that a small firm or local government will hire you without caring about your grades.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:29 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
sometimes smaller companies (in-house) don't ask for transcripts.
- RVP11
- Posts: 2774
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
L...O...L.OldManHunger wrote:Grades even come up with lateraling.
- PKSebben
- Posts: 830
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:35 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
This is absolutely true.RVP11 wrote:L...O...L.OldManHunger wrote:Grades even come up with lateraling.
-
- Posts: 2992
- Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
Not sure why this is funny. A DC Market consultant for laterals came to my school and explicitly stated firms were looking for a 3.5 for laterals unless the person had a significant book of business. She said while it didn't matter pre-crash, firms now use it to screen their potential laterals.RVP11 wrote:L...O...L.OldManHunger wrote:Grades even come up with lateraling.
-
- Posts: 460
- Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:12 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
I must've missed the joke. Strangely enough, this is true.RVP11 wrote:L...O...L.OldManHunger wrote:Grades even come up with lateraling.
Weird field we're in.
- Aberzombie1892
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
I feel comfortable saying that all firms with more than 10 attorneys will want to see your grades unless you have a massive family/client tie to the firm. The use of "all firms" here includes public interest law firms.
Most gov period will want to see them as well (city/state/fed).
Employers will want to see your transcript regardless of whether grades matter because they want to see what courses you took.
But then again, grades always matter.
Also - major law firm laterals have always needed to have excellent academic credentials (or prior big law firm experience) with the exception of a big book of business. I didn't realize it was ever different from that.
Most gov period will want to see them as well (city/state/fed).
Employers will want to see your transcript regardless of whether grades matter because they want to see what courses you took.
But then again, grades always matter.
Also - major law firm laterals have always needed to have excellent academic credentials (or prior big law firm experience) with the exception of a big book of business. I didn't realize it was ever different from that.
- Julio_El_Chavo
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:09 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
what school range?blowhard wrote:Not sure why this is funny. A DC Market consultant for laterals came to my school and explicitly stated firms were looking for a 3.5 for laterals unless the person had a significant book of business. She said while it didn't matter pre-crash, firms now use it to screen their potential laterals.RVP11 wrote:L...O...L.OldManHunger wrote:Grades even come up with lateraling.
-
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:14 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
.
Last edited by OldManHunger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- RVP11
- Posts: 2774
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
But still funny.PKSebben wrote:This is absolutely true.RVP11 wrote:L...O...L.OldManHunger wrote:Grades even come up with lateraling.
- Julio_El_Chavo
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:09 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
some schools don't even give out real gradesOldManHunger wrote:It probably doesn't matter nearly as much as you're thinking. Grades matter at every level. Someone above mentioned that OCS encourages sending out resumes without GPAs. But this isn't because the name of your school is enough to sell an employer. OCSs make this kind of suggestion out of wishful thinking--the OCS goal is to boost overall employment statistics. OCS would prefer a world where the median and low GPA students weren't beaten out by their high GPA counterparts. It's their mailing policy equivalent of a "no screening" policy at OCI. In reality, though, even at the top schools, employers care--and employers continue to care after graduation, too.Julio_El_Chavo wrote: what school range?
- XxSpyKEx
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:48 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
Yeah, but the only schools that don't give out meaningful grades are Yale and Stanford; at Yale grades most likely don't matter that much. The rest of the schools that don't give out real grades you can still get a somewhat accurate picture of where the person falls in their class.Julio_El_Chavo wrote:some schools don't even give out real gradesOldManHunger wrote:It probably doesn't matter nearly as much as you're thinking. Grades matter at every level. Someone above mentioned that OCS encourages sending out resumes without GPAs. But this isn't because the name of your school is enough to sell an employer. OCSs make this kind of suggestion out of wishful thinking--the OCS goal is to boost overall employment statistics. OCS would prefer a world where the median and low GPA students weren't beaten out by their high GPA counterparts. It's their mailing policy equivalent of a "no screening" policy at OCI. In reality, though, even at the top schools, employers care--and employers continue to care after graduation, too.Julio_El_Chavo wrote: what school range?
- Julio_El_Chavo
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:09 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
LOL @ firms making lateral hiring decisions based on a "somewhat accurate picture" of where a person falls in their law school class.XxSpyKEx wrote:Yeah, but the only schools that don't give out meaningful grades are Yale and Stanford; at Yale grades most likely don't matter that much. The rest of the schools that don't give out real grades you can still get a somewhat accurate picture of where the person falls in their class.Julio_El_Chavo wrote:some schools don't even give out real gradesOldManHunger wrote:It probably doesn't matter nearly as much as you're thinking. Grades matter at every level. Someone above mentioned that OCS encourages sending out resumes without GPAs. But this isn't because the name of your school is enough to sell an employer. OCSs make this kind of suggestion out of wishful thinking--the OCS goal is to boost overall employment statistics. OCS would prefer a world where the median and low GPA students weren't beaten out by their high GPA counterparts. It's their mailing policy equivalent of a "no screening" policy at OCI. In reality, though, even at the top schools, employers care--and employers continue to care after graduation, too.Julio_El_Chavo wrote: what school range?
Also, I understand rejecting someone for below median grades. But it seems a little ridiculous to take a 3.5 over a 3.46 when the entire difference between their GPAs could simply be attributed to the fact that the 3.46 took a few more classes which gave out all B+ grades to everyone.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 2992
- Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
Michigan. She deals with BigLaw transfers from T14 schools, transferring from BigLaw to BigLaw. Her GPA was what they look for from all T14 (that give grades).Julio_El_Chavo wrote:what school range?blowhard wrote:Not sure why this is funny. A DC Market consultant for laterals came to my school and explicitly stated firms were looking for a 3.5 for laterals unless the person had a significant book of business. She said while it didn't matter pre-crash, firms now use it to screen their potential laterals.RVP11 wrote:L...O...L.OldManHunger wrote:Grades even come up with lateraling.
To be clear it's not an absolute floor but a strong preference. They'll drop if you have substantial business or something special they want.
- thexfactor
- Posts: 1291
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:40 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
just curious, what is 3.5 at michshitgan? top 1/3? 25%?
- XxSpyKEx
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:48 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
What the hell are you talking about?Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Also, I understand rejecting someone for below median grades. But it seems a little ridiculous to take a 3.5 over a 3.46 when the entire difference between their GPAs could simply be attributed to the fact that the 3.46 took a few more classes which gave out all B+ grades to everyone.XxSpyKEx wrote:Yeah, but the only schools that don't give out meaningful grades are Yale and Stanford; at Yale grades most likely don't matter that much. The rest of the schools that don't give out real grades you can still get a somewhat accurate picture of where the person falls in their class.Julio_El_Chavo wrote:some schools don't even give out real gradesOldManHunger wrote: It probably doesn't matter nearly as much as you're thinking. Grades matter at every level. Someone above mentioned that OCS encourages sending out resumes without GPAs. But this isn't because the name of your school is enough to sell an employer. OCSs make this kind of suggestion out of wishful thinking--the OCS goal is to boost overall employment statistics. OCS would prefer a world where the median and low GPA students weren't beaten out by their high GPA counterparts. It's their mailing policy equivalent of a "no screening" policy at OCI. In reality, though, even at the top schools, employers care--and employers continue to care after graduation, too.
-
- Posts: 2992
- Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
About top 25%thexfactor wrote:just curious, what is 3.5 at michshitgan? top 1/3? 25%?
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- lisjjen
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:19 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
Jesus Christ. This market makes me lose sleep sometimes, and I haven't even matriculated yet.blowhard wrote:About top 25%thexfactor wrote:just curious, what is 3.5 at michshitgan? top 1/3? 25%?
- Julio_El_Chavo
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:09 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
Oh, I was responding to the post about the 3.5 grade cutoff.XxSpyKEx wrote:What the hell are you talking about?Also, I understand rejecting someone for below median grades. But it seems a little ridiculous to take a 3.5 over a 3.46 when the entire difference between their GPAs could simply be attributed to the fact that the 3.46 took a few more classes which gave out all B+ grades to everyone.
-
- Posts: 428535
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
My firm asked for updated transcripts. My 2L grades were horrendous. Got the offer and never heard anything about grades. Honestly, I'd be shocked if anyone on the hiring committee even looked at my grades.
- RVP11
- Posts: 2774
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Re: Any 3Ls get their permanent position without showing grades?
This is what ONE LADY said about BigLaw to BigLaw lateral moves. And I'm sure someone with a 3.4 who's at a V10 would still be a better lateral candidate (for other BigLaw firms) than the 3.6 who's at a V50-V100. She probably just threw out some arbitrary "high" GPA.lisjjen wrote:Jesus Christ. This market makes me lose sleep sometimes, and I haven't even matriculated yet.blowhard wrote:About top 25%thexfactor wrote:just curious, what is 3.5 at michshitgan? top 1/3? 25%?
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login