Top Law Schools

cmraider wrote: When talking about a law school's academia placement, I assume people/the schools are talking solely about law school academia. That is, graduates who go on to become law school professors.

Cupidity wrote:Top undergrads will want T-14, state schools will generally require at least a T1 school, or else some notable distinction (ie: publication).

A'nold wrote:Nice little gig for when you don't want to be an attorney anymore ftw? What are you looking at pay-wise for a tiny state college or less-than-prestigious private?

cmraider wrote:

A'nold wrote:Nice little gig for when you don't want to be an attorney anymore ftw? What are you looking at pay-wise for a tiny state college or less-than-prestigious private?

I'm not sure if this applies across the board, but here's some stuff I've found by doing a lil internets research.

A few disclaimers first:
-I could only find data from 2008-09 and 07-08, but I think it's a good starting point
-Because of this, I'm making some apples to oranges comparisons
-I don't know how to go about finding out info from private universities. I assume it's nearly impossible since (I believe) this kinda stuff isn't public record.

I found a database from the largest newspaper in my state that listed all the salaries of every state college employee, from janitor to president. I looked up salaries for profs at three different levels: comm. college, large state university (probably the #2 or 3 best state school) and flagship state university. Here's what I found:

Community College
For this, I looked up the paralegal dept., where all four profs (the Dean, assoc. prof, two adjuncts) have JDs. Since the data is a few years old, I couldn't find the salaries of the 2 most junior profs, so I had to rely on the salary info on the assoc. prof. I don't know her experience level,though I would expect it's at least 5 years, but she made 53,420 in 08-09.

Large state university--I went to this school
I looked up a prof I had for Con Law, because I took her class when she was in either her first or second year of teaching. She had a Ph.D. in poli sci, or some other related field of study, not a J.D. She made 47,350 in 08-09.

Flagship university
This data was from 07-08. The adjunct faculty in the poli scie dept. with 1-2 years experience had salaries all over the place. They ranged from 32,000-72,000, depending on whether they were a "lecturer" or "assistant professor." The lecturers made 40,000 or less, while the assistant profs (with 2 years experience) made no less than 52,000, and as much as 72,000 (though I wonder if that is a typo). 52,000 was the norm, though.

A'nold wrote:Thanks for doing that. Were you able to find tenured prof. salaries?

Btw- I wouldn't want to do like paralegal prof. I'd rather do like poly sci lecturing or history of the law in the ancient world or something like that (bachelors degree).

cmraider wrote:

A'nold wrote:Thanks for doing that. Were you able to find tenured prof. salaries?

Btw- I wouldn't want to do like paralegal prof. I'd rather do like poly sci lecturing or history of the law in the ancient world or something like that (bachelors degree).

I looked at the database again. Those with the title, "associate professor" or "professor" earned between 76,000 and 107,000 at Flagship U. It should be noted that the least-tenured prof in that range had 9 years experience, although I assume he had many more at other schools, while the longest-tenured faculty member had 36 years under his belt (he made the 107,000). The other database I looked at, which has all the other state schools' info, isn't as search friendly. Although, from just searching individual profs, I would say the salary ranges at Large state U are comparable, if not slightly lower. I would estimate the range to be 70,000-95,000.

thesealocust wrote:PhD students tend to receive money instead of go into crazy debt, so financial ruin isn't nearly as big of a concern.

thesealocust wrote:Folks, the academic hiring market is 1,000 times worse than the legal hiring market.

prezidentv8 wrote:

thesealocust wrote:PhD students tend to receive money instead of go into crazy debt, so financial ruin isn't nearly as big of a concern.

This is relevant to my interests.

Plus, I figure - if you can get into them - hiring for those STEM sorts of Ph.Ds can't be THAT bad, and more likely to receive funding and stipends in the first place.

prezidentv8 wrote:Ooooh idea-


If no law yob, then funded stats Ph.d to defer loan payments/get stipend moneys, then yob teaching political methodology and law courses at a college.

FOOLPROOF BACKUP PLAN!

AreJay711 wrote:

prezidentv8 wrote:Ooooh idea-


If no law yob, then funded stats Ph.d to defer loan payments/get stipend moneys, then yob teaching political methodology and law courses at a college.

FOOLPROOF BACKUP PLAN!

I think something like Vandy's Law and Economics Ph.D. might be good for this. At least until you finish that program and find yourself strapped with 5 years of accrued interest and actually worse employment prospects

thesealocust wrote:Folks, the academic hiring market is 1,000 times worse than the legal hiring market.

PhDs are slow and fraught with failure. Roughly 50% (one half!) of those who start the program have gotten a degree within ten years. Those who get a degree face tiny hiring needs (see: tenure), extraordinary hiring competition (see: popularity of PhDs with academic jobs being one of the only target jobs), and difficult tenure paths (tenure is all but certain for law profs but very difficult to obtain as an undergraduate professor).

Look up articles / discussions on PhDs and you'll see a hiring landscape that is much, much, much worse than the law - only PhD students tend to receive money instead of go into crazy debt, so financial ruin isn't nearly as big of a concern.