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I have a friend who is a 1L at U San Fran. He is paying full price and got his 1st semester grades back and he is between median and 60% in his class.

- He is asking me for advice and I think I have the answer but I am interested in some peoples thoughts. He wants to practice in SF or NYC. He is from PA.

I think the general consensus would be to drop out now, before the debt really piles up. From what I understand, NYC is almost certainly out of the picture at this point. Even with top grades from USF, I'm not sure how viable an option that would be, especially without prior connections to the area.

What's your friends background? Does he have a viable backup plan? Prior work experience?

Wait, your friend wanted NYC and went to USF?

Depends what his goals are I think. If he's OK with paying back debt for a while and not set on biglaw/academia/clerkships, then stay in and get the help needed to try to move up a bit.

I think a lot of people on this forum forget that people graduate in the bottom 50% every year from every law school, and most don't end up as hobo's for life. Options are definitely more limited, but if your aspirations are within those limits then meh.

Your 'friend' .... really? cmon man its anonymous...

Nicholasnickynic wrote:Your 'friend' .... really? cmon man its anonymous...

This is an extremely valid point.

If your "friend" is comfortable with being indebted for the next quarter century then he should stay in and do the 25 year IBR plan.

zomginternets wrote:I think a lot of people on this forum forget that people graduate in the bottom 50% every year from every law school, and most don't end up as hobo's for life. Options are definitely more limited, but if your aspirations are within those limits then meh.

You realize that law school doesn't cost what it used to and that the economy tanked recently?

Does anyone on this board understand that the economy is cyclical? In other words, what goes down goes back up, and vice versa.

Army2Law wrote:Does anyone on this board understand that the economy is cyclical? In other words, what goes down goes back up, and vice versa.

Do you understand how biglaw hiring works?

bk187 wrote:If your "friend" is comfortable with being indebted for the next quarter century then he should stay in and do the 25 year IBR plan.

zomginternets wrote:I think a lot of people on this forum forget that people graduate in the bottom 50% every year from every law school, and most don't end up as hobo's for life. Options are definitely more limited, but if your aspirations are within those limits then meh.

You realize that law school doesn't cost what it used to and that the economy tanked recently?

I would gladly invest tens of thousands for a good chance of not being homeless.

Army2Law wrote:Does anyone on this board understand that the economy is cyclical? In other words, what goes down goes back up, and vice versa.

There's no guarantee that the old economic model will ever return. At least with regard to the economy, what came before is no indication of what might be true in the future.

Yes, it's also cyclical. I'm not saying homeboy from USF is getting biglaw, but everyone on this site just parrots the same thing everyone else says. Economic indicators are positive right now and more economic growth = more need for legal services = increased law firm workload = increase in hiring. Do you understand how biglaw hiring works?

Army2Law wrote:Yes, it's also cyclical. I'm not saying homeboy from USF is getting biglaw, but everyone on this site just parrots the same thing everyone else says. Economic indicators are positive right now and more economic growth = more need for legal services = increased law firm workload = increase in hiring. Do you understand how biglaw hiring works?

Don't be naive. 150k plus in debt with 8% interest, earning ~40k per year. Do the math.

Army2Law wrote:Yes, it's also cyclical. I'm not saying homeboy from USF is getting biglaw, but everyone on this site just parrots the same thing everyone else says. Economic indicators are positive right now and more economic growth = more need for legal services = increased law firm workload = increase in hiring. Do you understand how biglaw hiring works?

I do, and I understand that if he doesn't get biglaw in this fall, he will almost assuredly never get it. Without biglaw, his ability to pay off 150-200k worth of debt in a reasonable amount of time will be very slim whether or not the economy picks up a bit.

Haha, I'm not being naive, I know a retard that went 200k in debt at Florida Coastal to wait tables at Cheesecake Factory. It's just that so many people here act like the economy is going to stay in the hole for the rest of our lives, and I think that's just as foolish as people thinking that going to law school is a golden ticket to riches.

Getting in an argument with the elitist posters here is like winning the Special Olympics.

Not everyone wants BigLaw. You need to weigh the outcome for yourself. No, law school will not make you rich. YOU can though. Work your ass off, make connections, etc. See where that gets you.

The fact that "the economy is cyclical" will do nothing to help the OP's "friend". For this person, a job that would allow him/her to pay off that debt in any reasonable fashion isn't available now, wasn't available in the past, and sure as hell won't be available in the future.

Anonymous User wrote:Getting in an argument with the elitist posters here is like winning the Special Olympics.

Not everyone wants BigLaw. You need to weigh the outcome for yourself. No, law school will not make you rich. YOU can though. Work your ass off, make connections, etc. See where that gets you.

I'm not saying that biglaw is desirable, I am saying it is one of the few ways that lawyers can pay off 6 figures worth of debt in a reasonable amount of time.

I am fine with law school not making me rich, but I really don't think it is worth it to be barely making ends meet while you pay off your loans for the next quarter century.

missinglink wrote:

Army2Law wrote:Does anyone on this board understand that the economy is cyclical? In other words, what goes down goes back up, and vice versa.

There's no guarantee that the old economic model will ever return. At least with regard to the economy, what came before is no indication of what might be true in the future.

i like the fact that you wrote this post and your username is "missinglink". seems fitting

Anonymous User wrote:Getting in an argument with the elitist posters here is like winning the Special Olympics.

Not everyone wants BigLaw. You need to weigh the outcome for yourself. No, law school will not make you rich. YOU can though. Work your ass off, make connections, etc. See where that gets you.

Come on, dude. You don't have to be an elitist to be sensible. OK, so not everyone wants BigLaw. That doesn't mean it's smart or prudent to get 150k plus in debt in order to land a job that you can get with zero debt and a bachelor's. 40k is dick when you're looking at all that debt, I don't care who you are.

Anonymous User wrote:Getting in an argument with the elitist posters here is like winning the Special Olympics.

Not everyone wants BigLaw. You need to weigh the outcome for yourself. No, law school will not make you rich. YOU can though. Work your ass off, make connections, etc. See where that gets you.

Having a job that will enable to pay debt off in a timely fashion is HORRIBLY elitist.

Kohinoor wrote:

bk187 wrote:If your "friend" is comfortable with being indebted for the next quarter century then he should stay in and do the 25 year IBR plan.

zomginternets wrote:I think a lot of people on this forum forget that people graduate in the bottom 50% every year from every law school, and most don't end up as hobo's for life. Options are definitely more limited, but if your aspirations are within those limits then meh.

You realize that law school doesn't cost what it used to and that the economy tanked recently?

I would gladly invest tens of thousands for a good chance of not being homeless.

Some people actually want to go to law school so that they can practice law, and not solely to make big rich money upon graduation. Yah, maybe the going might be tough for a while out of law school until you get a decent gig. But if law is what OP's "friend" wants to do and doesn't care about being in debt for a while, then I think he should stick to it.. for now at least.

zomginternets wrote:Some people actually want to go to law school so that they can practice law, and not solely to make big rich money upon graduation. Yah, maybe the going might be tough for a while out of law school until you get a decent gig. But if law is what OP's "friend" wants to do and doesn't care about being in debt for a while, then I think he should stick to it.. for now at least.

I wouldn't suffer under 200k debt making little money for even my ideal dream job.

bk187 wrote:

zomginternets wrote:Some people actually want to go to law school so that they can practice law, and not solely to make big rich money upon graduation. Yah, maybe the going might be tough for a while out of law school until you get a decent gig. But if law is what OP's "friend" wants to do and doesn't care about being in debt for a while, then I think he should stick to it.. for now at least.

I wouldn't suffer under 200k debt making little money for even my ideal dream job.

I would if it meant that I would get continuous raises throughout my career as a professional golfer....

Army2Law wrote:Yes, it's also cyclical. I'm not saying homeboy from USF is getting biglaw, but everyone on this site just parrots the same thing everyone else says. Economic indicators are positive right now and more economic growth = more need for legal services = increased law firm workload = increase in hiring. Do you understand how biglaw hiring works?

The economy could grow like it was on steroids and there's no way that anybody outside of the top-10% is going to get hired by big firms in what might be the most competitive legal hiring market outside of DC. Someone below median? Even in the best economic conditions in the history of the United States, it's still not going to happen. So while your point of "if the economy gets better, then law firms hire more people," while facile, is technically correct, but it has no relevance whatsoever in this thread.