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I have a 3.33, which is a little bit above median. Am I shut out of big law if i don't improve this semester?

No. You're probably shut out of Boise Schiller and Wachtell, but those grades will not keep you out of biglaw.

unfortunately, i had worse grades even though i thought i did better. but i received a B+, B, and a shocking B-. So you're better off than me. Dare I ask what my chances are? I know a typical response will be that there is always spring semester grades. But there is never a guarantee you'll get straight As.

Which CLS are we talking about here? Columbia? Chicago? Cornell? Cooley...

Anonymous User wrote:unfortunately, i had worse grades even though i thought i did better. but i received a B+, B, and a shocking B-. So you're better off than me. Dare I ask what my chances are? I know a typical response will be that there is always spring semester grades. But there is never a guarantee you'll get straight As.

This sounds counter-intuitive but if your add-drop period is still open you need to max out your credits this semester to maximize the grade swing potential open to you. You should absolutely be studying instead of posting on TLS.

OP here, CLS=Columbia Law School

Do I have a shot at Ropes & Gray?

Oh, and I applied for some 1L SA positions, and they wrote me back asking for my grades, which I didn't have at the time I applied. I'm assuming that these grades are not going to cut it?

Kohinoor wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:unfortunately, i had worse grades even though i thought i did better. but i received a B+, B, and a shocking B-. So you're better off than me. Dare I ask what my chances are? I know a typical response will be that there is always spring semester grades. But there is never a guarantee you'll get straight As.

This sounds counter-intuitive but if your add-drop period is still open you need to max out your credits this semester to maximize the grade swing potential open to you. You should absolutely be studying instead of posting on TLS.

TCR

Anonymous User wrote:Which CLS are we talking about here? Columbia? Chicago? Cornell? Cooley...

It's never been completely clear why, but without other indicators to the contrary (thread name, previous mention, etc.) CLS always equals Columbia on TLS.

Kohinoor wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:unfortunately, i had worse grades even though i thought i did better. but i received a B+, B, and a shocking B-. So you're better off than me. Dare I ask what my chances are? I know a typical response will be that there is always spring semester grades. But there is never a guarantee you'll get straight As.

This sounds counter-intuitive but if your add-drop period is still open you need to max out your credits this semester to maximize the grade swing potential open to you. You should absolutely be studying instead of posting on TLS.

Thanks for the reply. But just to let you know I don't spend hours or even a hour on TLS. Just logged on to make this one post because I can't really ask my classmates anonymously. I didn't think there was anything wrong with taking a minute to ask a question. Also, can't max out credits. I guess just study hard and pray for As.

As someone who went through CLS's EIP this Fall, I doubt you will be "shut out" with those grades. That is, I know people with around 3.3 who got V100 jobs. However, with that gpa, you are in an undifferentiated mass of people (it's pretty much, kent, LR, stone, everyone else), so you need something else to catch the firms eye. Prior WE was big, LR write on, great interview skills, etc. Point being, you need to improve your grades in order to have a good shot at a firm, rather than simply a shot.

Go talk to your professors about your exams, if possible. Figure out what you did differently on your A- exam vs. your B exam. Almost everyone knows the doctrine, it's all about learning how to take law school exams.

Edit: I have no real knowledge on whether you could do Ropes & Gray.

quakeroats wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Which CLS are we talking about here? Columbia? Chicago? Cornell? Cooley...

It's never been completely clear why, but without other indicators to the contrary (thread name, previous mention, etc.) CLS always equals Columbia on TLS.

It's the highest-ranked school with those initials. This is also why UT always equals the University of Texas.

Chicago as "CLS" wouldn't make sense anyway, because those initials don't match its full name.

CLS 2L here with a bit below that GPA who struck out at EIP. If you can't get it up to over Stone, you'll still have a good shot at biglaw. However, bidding and hustling to pick up extra interviews by mass mailing and being at your computer at 12:00 during add/drop will become very important. Prepare to tap every contact you know, ask every 2L/3L, troll these forums for advice. Anything OCS tells you should be run through multiple sources to verify. They can only hurt you with a median GPA.

You have a shot at R+G NYC for a 2L SA. Unless you are a URM, IP background, or significant relevant work experience you have no shot at a 1L SA.

Anonymous User wrote:Which CLS are we talking about here? Columbia? Chicago? Cornell? Cooley...

QF Noob not knowing the board's commonly accepted abbreviations, nor how to work the anonymous function.

Anyone know how this is affected by someone trying to go into IP with an engineering degree (no work experience) in Texas (Dallas or Houston)? Does it bring down what you'll need to have a good shot much or do you still need Stone (~3.41) to ever have a good shot at a Big Law firm?

Anonymous User wrote:CLS 2L here with a bit below that GPA who struck out at EIP. If you can't get it up to over Stone, you'll still have a good shot at biglaw. However, bidding and hustling to pick up extra interviews by mass mailing and being at your computer at 12:00 during add/drop will become very important. Prepare to tap every contact you know, ask every 2L/3L, troll these forums for advice. Anything OCS tells you should be run through multiple sources to verify. They can only hurt you with a median GPA.

You have a shot at R+G NYC for a 2L SA. Unless you are a URM, IP background, or significant relevant work experience you have no shot at a 1L SA.

All of the above is 100% true from what I know of last year's EIP. If you have similar grades after second semester, be sure to bid conservatively on firms (i.e., only use a couple bids on V10 and concentrate the vast majority of your bids on V20-50) and, as the above poster advised, add as many firm slots as possible during the add/drop. There is a TON of great interviewing and bidding advice in these forums as well, and people are also helpful if you give them your grades/school before you have to bid and ask their advice.

Poplock wrote:Anyone know how this is affected by someone trying to go into IP with an engineering degree (no work experience) in Texas (Dallas or Houston)? Does it bring down what you'll need to have a good shot much or do you still need Stone (~3.41) to ever have a good shot at a Big Law firm?

I can't speak directly to IP, but in generally secondary markets were frustrating for a good number of people. The problem is that for secondary market firms, the same 10 people are always interviewing and the firms only give so many callbacks. So if you have 3 or 4 people with great grade at every interview, callbacks for others can be sparse. Hopefully, the engineering degree helps you out.

OP here

Is my spread looked on differently than straight B+s?

Also, since Columbia doesn't calculate GPAs, is there any difference between my 3.33 and median (~3.25), or is it close enough to not matter?

I know someone with those kind of grades at Penn who is headed to Debevoise. I don't think you are shut out.

(Not URM although s/he did write onto LR)

Anonymous User wrote:OP here

Is my spread looked on differently than straight B+s?

Also, since Columbia doesn't calculate GPAs, is there any difference between my 3.33 and median (~3.25), or is it close enough to not matter?

I don't think spread matters too much at this level. I'd never want a spread that includes a B-, but other than that, I don't think anyone cares. The good thing about spread is that you can better figure out how you got an A- in one class (so you can do it again) and a B in another (so you can avoid it).

I don't think there is any real difference between 3.33 and median. From what I gathered from EIP, it's honors (kent/stone), the vast majority, and then those with bad grades (the ones with B-(s) and such. But median people got jobs.

Renzo wrote:No. You're probably shut out of Boise Schiller and Wachtell, but those grades will not keep you out of biglaw.

Boies Schiller? Really?

Anonymous User wrote:I have a 3.33, which is a little bit above median. Am I shut out of big law if i don't improve this semester?

Extremely odd anti CLS trolling? Maybe in 2009.

i have exact same grades as you OP... i got the A- in the class I thought I performed worst in, and the B in the class I put the most effort in... go figure

Not that I'd mind V50-100, but it sure would be nice to be at a V20 firm next summer. Best of luck to us both!

Anonymous User wrote:CLS 2L here with a bit below that GPA who struck out at EIP. If you can't get it up to over Stone, you'll still have a good shot at biglaw. However, bidding and hustling to pick up extra interviews by mass mailing and being at your computer at 12:00 during add/drop will become very important. Prepare to tap every contact you know, ask every 2L/3L, troll these forums for advice. Anything OCS tells you should be run through multiple sources to verify. They can only hurt you with a median GPA.

You have a shot at R+G NYC for a 2L SA. Unless you are a URM, IP background, or significant relevant work experience you have no shot at a 1L SA.

Sorry to hear you struck out.... I hope you found something by now that you are happy with. Do you think grades were the main reason? or were there some other glaring errors (such as bidding above your range or not mass mailing) that you made that you would've corrected in hindsight? How do most people in the median/below stone range fare?

Best of luck with everything and thanks for the advice!

RVP11 wrote:

Renzo wrote:No. You're probably shut out of Boise Schiller and Wachtell, but those grades will not keep you out of biglaw.

Boies Schiller? Really?

Well, I don't know about there corporate side, seeing as how I thought someone was joking when they told the firm did corporate work. But the lit associates make BANK, so it's ultra-competitive.

Another CLS 1L...Anyone know what chances are at a 1L SA position with A, A-, B+??