MVP bottom of t10 should I drop out? Around a 2.8.... Forum

[Sean1269]

If you're in your first year, give it another semester. You will figure it out. Keep in mind that if you "just" want a legal job there will be opportunities, albeit not your dream ones, but they still exist. Not to mention if you're in your first year, getting a job is 2.5 years away so try your best not to make any rash decisions about something that is years away.

On the flip side, if you're maxed and really feel like you won't figure out how to take a law school test (which has no bearing on how good of a lawyer you will be), and you hate school, yourself, and life, then yes you should seriously consider dropping out.

Keep in mind (if you're thinking years in advance rather than just now), the market will eventually recover, so if you have to take a non-legal job first then so be it, plenty of lawyers have done that in previous recessions.

[worldtraveler]

I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get

They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.

[20160810]

I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get

They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.

What other qualifications are there?

Do they just ask for a scrapbook of Whole Foods receipts and photos of you riding a fixed-gear bike? I cannot fathom an employer, PI or otherwise, that would be utterly unconcerned with grades.

[Curry]

If you're in your first year, give it another semester. You will figure it out. Keep in mind that if you "just" want a legal job there will be opportunities, albeit not your dream ones, but they still exist. Not to mention if you're in your first year, getting a job is 2.5 years away so try your best not to make any rash decisions about something that is years away.

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS. There are more lawyers each year than there are legal jobs. Saying "there will be opportunities" isn't optimistic, its not naive. And OCI is next fall, not 2.5 years away. This post is wrong. Just no.

[sundance95]

I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get

They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.

What other qualifications are there?

Do they just ask for a scrapbook of Whole Foods receipts and photos of you riding a fixed-gear bike? I cannot fathom an employer, PI or otherwise, that would be utterly unconcerned with grades.

180

[edcrane]

Unless you have good reasons to believe that you can improve a great deal this semester, I'd suggest dropping out. Bottom of the class is not a good place to be ITE. Particularly since student loans are effectively nondischargable in bankruptcy.

[edcrane]

to be honest with you guys, if you are considering coming to the T14 at sticker... or any law school at sticker and you are genuinely worried about being in the bottom 10%, there probably is a good chance you'll be the bottom 10% and maybe you should reconsider.

I think you're mistaken. In law school, pessimism correlates positively with success. http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... udy_finds/. And what we're talking about here probably isn't rightly called pessimism. It's closer to objectivity. Without first attending law school, it's impossible to know where you'll fall along the curve. Although it's relatively unlikely that any one person entering the class will end up in the bottom (or top) 10%, it would be foolhardy to ignore the consequences of landing in that position.

[michigan_man]

If you're in your first year, give it another semester. You will figure it out. Keep in mind that if you "just" want a legal job there will be opportunities, albeit not your dream ones, but they still exist. Not to mention if you're in your first year, getting a job is 2.5 years away so try your best not to make any rash decisions about something that is years away.

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS. There are more lawyers each year than there are legal jobs. Saying "there will be opportunities" isn't optimistic, its not naive. And OCI is next fall, not 2.5 years away. This post is wrong. Just no.

You are grossly uninformed about the public interest hiring process. It has little or nothing to do with OCI, and most hiring takes place during the 3L year.

As for a couple posters above: general public interesest job hiring (not the super prestigious, practically unobtainable impact litigation jobs) is done with much less emphasis on grades. The local prosecuting office is going to hire the guy from MVP in the bottom quarter with two summers of prosecutorial experience and a criminal clinic rather than the guy in the top 1/4 who interned for a judge before working at a V5 for the summer.

I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get

They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.

This is correct.

[vanwinkle]

You are grossly uninformed about the public interest hiring process. It has little or nothing to do with OCI, and most hiring takes place during the 3L year.

As for a couple posters above: general public interesest job hiring (not the super prestigious, practically unobtainable impact litigation jobs) is done with much less emphasis on grades. The local prosecuting office is going to hire the guy from MVP in the bottom quarter with two summers of prosecutorial experience and a criminal clinic rather than the guy in the top 1/4 who interned for a judge before working at a V5 for the summer.

This is technically true, but irrelevant, especially ITE. They both get beaten out by the person who has above-median grades and two summers of prosecutorial experience. Or by the experienced prosecutor who got laid off by their big-city office due to budget cuts and will take a new job just about anywhere.

The emphasis isn't focused on grades, but the applicants-to-jobs ratio is so high right now that even PI orgs are enjoying their pick of folks.

[bdubs]

I realize this dude has grades that are bottom of the class bad, but why does everyone use median as the cut point? If everyone below median dropped out the attrition would be ridiculous and the curves would f*ck over a lot of good students the next semester. It seems kind of arbitrary to say that half of the students in a T14 suck and should consider dropping out.

[truevines]

I realize this dude has grades that are bottom of the class bad, but why does everyone use median as the cut point? If everyone below median dropped out the attrition would be ridiculous and the curves would f*ck over a lot of good students the next semester. It seems kind of arbitrary to say that half of the students in a T14 suck and should consider dropping out.

In this hypo, then, there would be 1/2 supply of t14 law students. But the number of BigLaw jobs remains the same. I guess you would see 90%-100% OCIP offer rate and 90% of t14 graduates getting BigLaw salaries.

[rose711]

What did you decide to do? I hate advising people to drop out - but I think that would have been a smart decision. If you decided to stick it out, do your best but don't take it personally if you don't improve. Not everyone is cut out to do well in law school even if they work hard and study all the time. Just don't be down on yourself. If you leave, don't look back.

Good luck!

[LLB2JD]

I just feel as if those who genuinely fear being in the bottom 10% would generally have a substantially higher chance at being in the bottom 10% than one who genuinely feels they will be above median.

[lolschool2011]

Class has already started. GPA is about a 2.78 on a 3.3 curve.

Should I drop out?

Goals: I just want a legal job. I don't care how much money I make. Plus, my school has a good LRAP program if that means anything...

Why anonymous?

[vanwinkle]

Class has already started. GPA is about a 2.78 on a 3.3 curve.

Should I drop out?

Goals: I just want a legal job. I don't care how much money I make. Plus, my school has a good LRAP program if that means anything...

Why anonymous?

Don't make posts like this. If you think a post is misusing the anon feature, then flag it.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=130748

Future discussion about use of the anon feature should go in the Mod Q&A thread in the lounge, and should stop here.

[worldtraveler]

I was under the impression that PI jobs are some of the most difficult to get

They look at entirely different qualifications. A good transcript is often not one of those. I have yet to have an employer even request a transcript.

What other qualifications are there?

Do they just ask for a scrapbook of Whole Foods receipts and photos of you riding a fixed-gear bike? I cannot fathom an employer, PI or otherwise, that would be utterly unconcerned with grades.

experience, language ability, rank of school, commitment to issues, clinic work, volunteering...

[2LLLL]

This is technically true, but irrelevant, especially ITE. They both get beaten out by the person who has above-median grades and two summers of prosecutorial experience. Or by the experienced prosecutor who got laid off by their big-city office due to budget cuts and will take a new job just about anywhere.

The emphasis isn't focused on grades, but the applicants-to-jobs ratio is so high right now that even PI orgs are enjoying their pick of folks.

This is very credited. You can't act like PI is some kind of back-up plan if you do bad 1L year and can't get BigLaw. There are people on LR at my school who didn't even participate in OCI because they are committed to being an ADA/PD.

The OP is a weak applicant to an ADA or PD. Your local ADA or PD office isn't composed of a bunch of prestige-conscious T14 grads. With a limited budget for new hires (if any) an ADA or PD is not going to hire a bottom 10% student from MVP over a top student from a lower rated school who really wants to do criminal law.

OP I hate to dash your dreams here, but if you're paying sticker you really should drop out, its that bad out there. Sure you may end up getting a legal job, but think really hard about whether the type of job that will be available to you is what you want. Are you willing to work in personal injury/insurance defense/foreclosure or bankruptcy mill for $40k a year or less? While having six figures of nondischargeable debt?

Look at the responses in this thread- everyone telling you to stay is a 0L, it seems like most of the people telling you to drop out are current law students. Credit accordingly.

[Anonymous User]

NVM

[Anonymous User]

OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.

[fatduck]

OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.

wait, you were gonna drop out before you even had all your grades? that's ridiculous (on your school's part, i mean)

[soullesswonder]

OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.

wait, you were gonna drop out before you even had all your grades? that's ridiculous (on your school's part, i mean)

On the one hand, it's ridiculous that OP had to make this decision before all his grades were in. On the other hand, I would have had a different perspective if I knew OP had more than one or two data points on his exam capabilities.

[lisjjen]

I realize this dude has grades that are bottom of the class bad, but why does everyone use median as the cut point? If everyone below median dropped out the attrition would be ridiculous and the curves would f*ck over a lot of good students the next semester. It seems kind of arbitrary to say that half of the students in a T14 suck and should consider dropping out.

In this hypo, then, there would be 1/2 supply of t14 law students. But the number of BigLaw jobs remains the same. I guess you would see 90%-100% OCIP offer rate and 90% of t14 graduates getting BigLaw salaries.

Because everyone ever only wants biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.

wait, you were gonna drop out before you even had all your grades? that's ridiculous (on your school's part, i mean)

On the one hand, it's ridiculous that OP had to make this decision before all his grades were in. On the other hand, I would have had a different perspective if I knew OP had more than one or two data points on his exam capabilities.

no, I had 3/4 grades. The last one turned out to be really well. I am still below the 25% but it's better than being dead last....

[Anonymous User]

OP-

Did you have any sort of regional connections to the firms you got pre-selects for? Solid WE? I had ~top5% and didn't get any pre-selects.

[vanwinkle]

OP here.
Got the last few grades and GPA is above a 3.0. Next semester, i will improve. On a lighter note, I have gotten a lot of preselects for both PI/Firms.

Thanks all for your input.

wait, you were gonna drop out before you even had all your grades? that's ridiculous (on your school's part, i mean)

This.

Also, if OP got one grade good enough to pull a 2.8 up to a 3.0, they better figure out what they did right on that test and make sure they do it again.