Top Law Schools

I go to a T30, and have median grades. I have no delusions of biglaw, just hoping to land a public interest gig that qualifies for LRAP. Unfortunately I somehow bombed LRW and ended up with a B-. Honestly, the TA told me that my final memo was really solid, and I did everything that he suggested to improve it. He said something like "if you change these few things, it should allow you to compete for an A."

I'm wondering how bad this will look, especially since my other grades are pretty unremarkable. I'm not sure how I can explain this away in interviews, since you can't really chalk the performance up to a bad day or anything like that. Basically, how fucked am I?

I think you're freaking out a bit too much. If you're happy with median grades (3.0 to 3.3), then one 2.7 isn't going to kill your overall GPA. My instinct is that if you don't have biglaw, clerkship or academia aspirations, you'll be fine. I don't know specifically what classes public interest jobs emphasize, but I wouldn't imagine that they disproportionately weigh LRW.

to answer the Q in ur title: yes. i dunno if its the end of the world but in my opinion u'r hurt in two ways:

1. real world lawyering is ALL about writing. so regardless of big law or public interest, and even for 1L judicial internships - lawyers, partners, judges all place important emphasis in being able to articulate a solid argument. i would rather explain away a B- in any other 1L class ("oh i just really hated torts") than a B- in LRW. wat u gonna say "ah, im a shitty writer, my bad"?

2. besides jerbs, LRW is the one 1L class where u learn real world lawyering. the research and writing skills u learn now will be the foundation for transmitting all ur knowledge. doing well in LRW will even improve ur exam writing skills.

if i were u i would pay more attention in LRW. its also the easiest class to do well in - there is not ambiguity to the rules. just do exactly what ur LRW prof and book tells u to do - there are only so many ways one can use IRAC. be clear and concise and dont try to write some flowery ass shit.

Overall GPA matters 100x more than the grades in individual classes that led to that GPA. My overall GPA was top 5%, with a glorious below-median grade in LRW. In all my firm interviews, only one person ever brought it up--and his firm ended up giving me an offer.

That sucks dood. I think I would rather bomb a substantive class than LRW just because I'd hate to have to explain how I bombed a class on research and writing when I'm an interviewing for positions that will involve almost exclusively research and writing. This is, of course, why it's god damned idiotic to have graded LRW.

If you're going to bomb a class, it should be LRW. It's usually worth few credit hours or not graded at all, and it's taught by contract faculty or students. Doing poorly will only hurt you insofar as it affects your GPA.

quakeroats wrote:If you're going to bomb a class, it should be LRW. It's usually worth few credit hours or not graded at all, and it's taught by contract faculty or students. Doing poorly will only hurt you insofar as it affects your GPA.

4hrs 1st sem and 3hrs 2nd semester. Hardly inconsequential.

I go to a t30 as well. My two worst grades in law school were LRW. I finished 1L top 25% and got big law and midlaw offers despite it. It's all about spin control.

BTW, just cuz you get a poor lrw grade doesn't mean you suck at research and writing. I had two firm jobs 1L summer, and both places raved about my writing. Shit happens. You need to worry about what how you'll sell yourself as a candidate overall, and what you'll say if you're asked about the grade ("I just really hated X class" is not the thing to say btw).

GATORTIM wrote:

quakeroats wrote:If you're going to bomb a class, it should be LRW. It's usually worth few credit hours or not graded at all, and it's taught by contract faculty or students. Doing poorly will only hurt you insofar as it affects your GPA.

4hrs 1st sem and 3hrs 2nd semester. Hardly inconsequential.

There's that "usually" part.

My worst grade was in LRW too, and I got a biglaw job. I think most people understand that LRW is NOT like real legal writing, so getting a bad grade in it is not an Armageddon scenario like some of the posters are saying.

fuck LRW

Anonymous User wrote:Overall GPA matters 100x more than the grades in individual classes that led to that GPA. My overall GPA was top 5%, with a glorious below-median grade in LRW. In all my firm interviews, only one person ever brought it up--and his firm ended up giving me an offer.

I think rules change when you are in top 5%.

But I think if you are median, that is just another strike against you.

Nicholasnickynic wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Overall GPA matters 100x more than the grades in individual classes that led to that GPA. My overall GPA was top 5%, with a glorious below-median grade in LRW. In all my firm interviews, only one person ever brought it up--and his firm ended up giving me an offer.

I think rules change when you are in top 5%.

But I think if you are median, that is just another strike against you.

What makes you think that?

(You haven't even been through 1L OCI yet, I assume.)

Bosque wrote:My worst grade was in LRW too, and I got a biglaw job. I think most people understand that LRW is NOT like real legal writing, so getting a bad grade in it is not an Armageddon scenario like some of the posters are saying.

I was exactly the same, as long as your GPA is high enough, don't worry about it.

I got the same grade in first semester lrw and have a job. The sky hath not fallen.

OP here,

Might as well give an update, even though I may be outing myself. I talked to the professor and he said "you had the toughest section and got fucked by the curve. I'm sorry. You didn't deserve that grade, but I'm not able to change it." Supposedly his first grades were rejected because they didn't comply with the curve. The original grades put me at a B+ before the adjustment. He did not give out any B's because he felt that the B+ papers were too close to separate. So he had to drop one B+ to a B-. He said that it came down to two papers and he couldn't make a decision, so he had another professor look over them. That professor chose to drop mine. I'm not really sure how to take this. One one hand, I'm not that far off, but I'm terribly upset that I had to be the one.

Re the top 5% people that bombed LRW: Thanks for the encouragement, but I don't think your situation really applies. You obviously had something that employers wanted, so they looked past the grade. Those of us at median are on shaky gound as it is, so the LRW grade can really turn employers off.

Re the median grades: I'm absolutely not happy with them. They hit me like a fucking truck. Bottom line: I didn't work hard enough or smart enough last semester. I will have to change some things up this semester.

I'm median, had a B- in LRW and got biglaw. All is not lost.

One thing I did do however is be proactive about it in interviews - talk about how your 1L summer, whatever it was, was ALL ABOUT improving your legal writing. It helped.

you're biggest mistake was going to a school that has graded lrw

Anonymous User wrote:you're biggest mistake was going to a [law] school that has graded lrw

FTFY

i echo the above posters who say that LRW is probably one of the more important classes during 1L year and i wish i paid more attention in it.

that being said, what they teach you in LRW isn't hard to learn on your own and - at my school its worse the least credits and thus, i blew it off. worse grade by far both semesters were in LRW. i then went onto my 1L SA position, put 100% effort into writing my memos/briefs and the partners loved my written work. got biglaw in 2L OCI (not a single employer commented that lrw was my lowest grades both semester), and won a writing prize 2L year... so, to summarize, yes, LRW is important but no, bombing it isn't the end of the world by any means.