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I spent my first summer at a mid sized firm and LOVED everything about it. They have recently asked me back for my second summer. What do you think the chances are that I'll get a permanent offer? I was their only clerk last summer and I'm assuming I would be their only clerk this summer. They're such good people that I almost think that they wouldn't ask me back a second summer (aka prevent me from developing any connections with other firms) without confidence that they would have room for me. According to one of the associates, they hired a clerk a few summers ago and didn't ask him back a second time. A few summers before that they had a clerk that they invited back for a second summer who was hired immediately after graduation.

Lets just put it this way, barring any further economic collapse or a partner's son taking your place, if you fuck this up you should probably /self



Keep up the work and you should be in.

You should ask if they anticipate needing to hire a new associate in 2012, and see how they respond. They obviously won't guarantee you a job, but you'll at least see how receptive they are to the question.

BattierFan wrote:I spent my first summer at a mid sized firm and LOVED everything about it. They have recently asked me back for my second summer. What do you think the chances are that I'll get a permanent offer? I was their only clerk last summer and I'm assuming I would be their only clerk this summer. They're such good people that I almost think that they wouldn't ask me back a second summer (aka prevent me from developing any connections with other firms) without confidence that they would have room for me. According to one of the associates, they hired a clerk a few summers ago and didn't ask him back a second time. A few summers before that they had a clerk that they invited back for a second summer who was hired immediately after graduation.

I hate to suggest this, but ask if they see themselves hiring any associates in 2012 (if that is the year you graduate). They will likely look at you funny for a moment, then give you an honest answer hopefully.

I would hate to waste two summers on a firm that can't or won't offer full time employment.

Edit: Looks like someone beat me to it.

Good point. It's so hard for me to be up front like that but I guess with something this major I need to be. Have y'all ever heard of anyone who is the only clerk at a firm for two consecutive summers and then doesn't get an offer?

I'm kind of in the same situation, although I don't even know if the firm wants me back yet.

BattierFan wrote:Good point. It's so hard for me to be up front like that but I guess with something this major I need to be. Have y'all ever heard of anyone who is the only clerk at a firm for two consecutive summers and then doesn't get an offer?

No, but it honestly doesn't matter what other firms have done. Small firms, especially ITE, have very different needs and budgets, and only your firm can tell you what they are looking for. Don't be afraid to ask -- they'll understand.

Yes, firms absolutely do take people on for two summers and then no-offer them. It happened at both of the firms I interned at.

Your best bet is to intern at two firms--not necessarily "split." By that I mean you should try to spend the full amount of time possible at a new firm AND four weeks at your old firm if you can. Two opportunities is always better than one.

Of course, that's general advice. As someone else noted, it sounds like you're involved with a very small firm. They might be able to tell you what to expect. But I would not trust any vague guarantees or promises, personally. Putting all your eggs in one basket when you don't have to strikes me as stupid for any situation short of your family owning the firm.

It wouldn't be a first for a firm to no offer someone who spent two summers with them. I have friends that it happened to. That said, the fact that you are even asking this question on January 11th, 2011 tells me that you don't have anything else lined up for this summer. There is no reason for you to ask questions about permanent hiring or worry about wasting time you could have spent developing connections with other firms because there are no other firms in the picture. If you had asked this question back in August or September, I would have said "be sure to ask them about hiring, because you need security." However, that isn't the case here. Your ONLY option is to 1) accept this gig AND 2) keep looking for something to split the summer with (and when I say split I mean split as in 6 weeks/6weeks. All the recruiting people I've talked to said they absolutely hate 4 weeks splits and they feel it's a quick way to a no offer).

I know someone who worked at a V50 two straight summers, got a CoA clerkship, and had then his/her permanent offer withdrawn after accepting the clerkship position. So anything can happen!