Top Law Schools

The dust assuredly has all but settled. Do we know what the damage (or improvement) was?

It's hustling time. Your finals are much more important than general market trends. It's too late to turn back and too little early to worry about OCI.

Here at NU both unofficial and official tallies suggest we're on pace to match last year's figure (about 60% getting something out of OCI). The difference seems to be in the quality of firms people got. OCI was substantially better at the top, with non-law review people getting V10-ish firms. The fact that the top Chicago firms increased their class size between slightly and substantially (eg: Kirkland Chicago went from 30 -> 50) helped a lot.

Desert Fox wrote:It's hustling time. Your finals are much more important than general market trends. It's too late to turn back and too little early to worry about OCI.

Agreed but am just done for the night. Will resume the hustle come 8 am tomorrow.

miamiman wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:It's hustling time. Your finals are much more important than general market trends. It's too late to turn back and too little early to worry about OCI.

Agreed but am just done for the night. Will resume the hustle come 8 am tomorrow.

Damn I should take my own advice. I still got K's reading to do.

About this much: |---|

bigben wrote:About this much: |---|

TCR.

Big Shrimpin wrote:

bigben wrote:About this much: |---|

TCR.

I wouldn't let people know that. The average person thinking about applying to law school is already prone enough to this as it is.

in ny many firms increased class size and some substantially. cravath went from 20 to 80. weil 20 to 60. simpson 50 or 60 to 80ish. and there are other firms as well. definintely a significant improvement at the top but not sure further down the list.

stratocophic wrote:

Big Shrimpin wrote:

bigben wrote:About this much: |---|

TCR.

I wouldn't let people know that. The average person thinking about applying to law school is already prone enough to this as it is.

So true. So sad, but so true.

Vandy is pretty bleak, from what I can tell. 30%?

Just based off anecdotes, I think it's definitely better this year, at least for certain schools, but it's almost impossible to gauge the extent without complete data from the schools. With respect to why hiring has improved, I would have to disagree with a previous poster -- I wouldn't say that "many" New York firms have increased their class sizes. The firms I had callbacks with in New York, which were non-v10, were keeping 15-30 person SA sizes, which is tiny for New York relative to the past couple of years. However, although it was mainly just the v10s in New York increasing class sizes, there was a trickle-down effect which improved employment this year.

As alluded to earlier, I can only provide anecdotes about hiring this season. I am Michigan 2L who recently went through OCI. We don't have complete OCI stats, but out of the 15 or so people I've spoken to about jobs, 13 out of the 15 landed biglaw out of OCI. (I don't know their grades, but only 1 of them is on law review.) I think it helps a ton if your school is heavily recruited by New York offices at OCI. Most of the 13 are headed to New York. Some to DC and Chicago.

Anonymous User wrote:Just based off anecdotes, I think it's definitely better this year, at least for certain schools, but it's almost impossible to gauge the extent without complete data from the schools. With respect to why hiring has improved, I would have to disagree with a previous poster -- I wouldn't say that "many" New York firms have increased their class sizes. The firms I had callbacks with in New York, which were non-v10, were keeping 15-30 person SA sizes, which is tiny for New York relative to the past couple of years. However, although it was mainly just the v10s in New York increasing class sizes, there was a trickle-down effect which improved employment this year.

As alluded to earlier, I can only provide anecdotes about hiring this season. I am Michigan 2L who recently went through OCI. We don't have complete OCI stats, but out of the 15 or so people I've spoken to about jobs, 13 out of the 15 landed biglaw out of OCI. (I don't know their grades, but only 1 of them is on law review.) I think it helps a ton if your school is heavily recruited by New York offices at OCI. Most of the 13 are headed to New York. Some to DC and Chicago.

Based on the 2009 data, the V10 was responsible for 10% of all NLJ250 SA slots, and in a typical year it's more like 15%. So big increases in the V10 can have a pretty big impact.

There are ~500 students in the top 10% of the T14. Out of firms who take these sorts of students:

Cravath: +50
Skadden: +20
Ropes: +20
Weil: +40
Cleary: +15
Simpson: +20
Kirkland: +20 (just in Chicago)
Total: 185

That's a really big improvement at the top, and keeps those folks from gunning for jobs slightly lower on the list. At a few of those firms:

Milbank: +35
White & Case: + 15

So overall pretty good improvement for people in the top 1/3 who have the grades to get these firms. Who are hurting are people below median, etc. The firms that have grade-cutoffs low enough for those people haven't really increased their class size much.

http://www.lawjobs.com/newsandviews/Law ... hbxlogin=1
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202464178844

rayiner wrote:So overall pretty good improvement for people in the top 1/3

<Looks around>

AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

rayiner wrote: Based on the 2009 data, the V10 was responsible for 10% of all NLJ250 SA slots, and in a typical year it's more like 15%. So big increases in the V10 can have a pretty big impact.

There are ~500 students in the top 10% of the T14. Out of firms who take these sorts of students:

Cravath: +50
Skadden: +20
Ropes: +20
Weil: +40
Cleary: +15
Simpson: +20
Kirkland: +20 (just in Chicago)
Total: 185

That's a really big improvement at the top, and keeps those folks from gunning for jobs slightly lower on the list. At a few of those firms:

Milbank: +35
White & Case: + 15

So overall pretty good improvement for people in the top 1/3 who have the grades to get these firms. Who are hurting are people below median, etc. The firms that have grade-cutoffs low enough for those people haven't really increased their class size much.

http://www.lawjobs.com/newsandviews/Law ... hbxlogin=1
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202464178844

Did you get those numbers from that article? I wouldn't put too much stock into them. I interviewed with a couple of those firms and they are having smaller classes than stated in the article. But yes, there are still going to be increases at various firms, not as great as previously published though.

From what I know, most of those numbers are accurate, except that the NY office of Kirkland will be 20 larger too.

Prediction: The decrease in class sizes at other NLJ250 firms will outnumber the increases in the V10.