to those with bad grades-where will you be working? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anybody around that has info on what (if anything) they landed from medianish grades at a T30-T25?

Median at T25, multiple offers, 2 at biglaw V60-70, 3 at market paying boutiques. But I am doing patents, so that is why. I know other people doing patent work from my school with similar grades who have offers at biglaw or boutiques too. I would not expect these results from anyone with median at a T25 who wasn't in patents.

This sounds like me. Above median (40% is my estimate) at T25 and going to a market paying boutique in a competitive market. Not 100% sure I want to do patent work but with my grades and no real work experience I didn't feel like I had a choice. I had midlaw options in a secondary market, but if someone's offering me 160 who am I to turn it down? I have no patent experience and am not eligible to sit for the patent bar...(yet). I do think my main positive was that my resume, and the way I talk about my past experiences, really show that I am a hard worker and am not afraid of science. I worked part-time throughout undergrad and busted out 6 internships before law school (half science-related, half law-related). I'm also working for a professor this semester, on a secondary journal, and involved in a community service project. Could I stop doing all this and get better grades? Probably, but I think the extra time studying would only improve my grades slightly whereas these other experiences help distinguish me from the other slightly above median students.

This! (I hope)

I'm sure I could have gotten better grades 1L year, and in undergrad for that matter (surely couldn't have gotten much worse). I chose to put a more time and effort into other things; friendships, extracurriculars, etc. Will I regret it if I don't end up making 160k? Maybe, but most likely not. Will I cherish it if I do end up making 160k? Of course.

(Edit: I am sure I want to do patent work)

(Last anon you quoted) Good luck! I'm sure the time you spend not studying electrical circuits or whatever made you a better communicator anyway. Play up your writing and people skills--I think boutiques treat these like bonus points.

[Anonymous User]

I'm chiming in as well! T20, 3L, Bottom 25%, Hard Science. Just got an offer this morning for a market-paying ip boutique (160k) in Chicago for after I graduate in May. For the law students who look down upon the kids not in the top 25th percentile and who make side comments left and right and exude "holier than thou" attitudes....all I have to say is: Suckers!!

It can be done my friends!! Good luck!!!

[Anonymous User]

I'm chiming in as well! T20, 3L, Bottom 25%, Hard Science. Just got an offer this morning for a market-paying ip boutique (160k) in Chicago for after I graduate in May. For the law students who look down upon the kids not in the top 25th percentile and who make side comments left and right and exude "holier than thou" attitudes....all I have to say is: Suckers!!

It can be done my friends!! Good luck!!!

IPSECURE, bro!

It's a little vindicating - those english and history majors that made fun of us in UG as we studied through the weekend sure wish they had our engineering degrees now!

[thelawyler]

I'm chiming in as well! T20, 3L, Bottom 25%, Hard Science. Just got an offer this morning for a market-paying ip boutique (160k) in Chicago for after I graduate in May. For the law students who look down upon the kids not in the top 25th percentile and who make side comments left and right and exude "holier than thou" attitudes....all I have to say is: Suckers!!

It can be done my friends!! Good luck!!!

IPSECURE, bro!

It's a little vindicating - those english and history majors that made fun of us in UG as we studied through the weekend sure wish they had our engineering degrees now!

I know I would go engineering now with what I know of the job market..

[Anonymous User]

I'm chiming in as well! T20, 3L, Bottom 25%, Hard Science. Just got an offer this morning for a market-paying ip boutique (160k) in Chicago for after I graduate in May. For the law students who look down upon the kids not in the top 25th percentile and who make side comments left and right and exude "holier than thou" attitudes....all I have to say is: Suckers!!

It can be done my friends!! Good luck!!!

IPSECURE, bro!

It's a little vindicating - those english and history majors that made fun of us in UG as we studied through the weekend sure wish they had our engineering degrees now!

These stories are actually pretty common, and ipsecure is legit. However, most of these are likely EE or CS/CE degrees. I have a physics degree, and while I was able to secure secondary market biglaw, I have decent grades it wasn't nearly as easy as some of my friends, and my bio friends are even worse off than me.

Basically, there are varying degrees of ipsecure. Do EE or computer stuff.

[Anonymous User]

Bottom 1/5 at T25. No hard science. Biglaw secure, only 1 offer, in southeast market of which I had ties. Was told by the firm that my interview was very good in my offer call. Cannot believe I got this lucky.

[Anonymous User]

Bottom 1/3 CCN, 2 NLJ 250 offers. Took an NLJ 250 offer at market in NYC. I was sweating my grades going into OCI, I had no idea how much of a factor they would be. My anecdotal experience was that my grades came into play at the cb level. I got 11 cb's total. I have very strong interviewing skills (did countless mock interviews with OCS and biglaw associates, all gave me very positive feedback), and I am good looking (not being vain, just saying if that is a factor then that is definitely not the reason I got dinged). I got waitlist-owned by every V100 firm I got a cb from. My impression was that they liked me but when I was up against other candidates with better grades that they liked equally, the other person got the nod, and I can only assume it was grades related.

9 V100 cb's -> 0 offers
2 NLJ 250 cb's -> 2 offers

[dingbat]

ITT: people at median think they have bad grades

[facile princeps]

FWIW, striking out at OCI is not the end of the world if you're at a T-14, whether towards the bottom of the class or the top. Unless you were dead set on that 160K/year biglaw job, there are lots of other opportunities out there.

This may be an unpopular opinion around TLS, but there are lots of small/medium sized firms that involve interesting work and start people at 60 or 70K. The key there is that they START people at 60 or 70K. Obviously there's no lockstep progression like there is in biglaw, but by the time you're a mid level associate and you start being more valuable to the firm, you'll probably be approaching six figures. Is this enough to buy a BMW or pay off your student loans in five years? No, clearly its not, but its the beginning of a career, and even after student loan payments its plenty for anyone in their late 20s to get by on.

Plus, working for a smaller firm exposes you to more substantive legal work at the beginning of your career. I can't tell you how many biglaw attorneys I've talked to who would take a third year small law (think insurance defense, for example) lateral who has handled depos, handled motions, and probably even first chaired trials over a third year biglaw lateral who has no practical skills. From what I've seen, this seems to be especially true in secondary markets.

The point I'm trying to make here is that people should try and stop the doom and gloom over striking out at OCI. I know it feels awful and socially isolates you from your peers who are all constantly talking about their swanky biglaw gigs, but try not to be too short sighted. Keep plugging away and you WILL find a job.

Thank you for this.

[Anonymous User]

Bottom third at MVP (but not below 3.0 on a 3.3 curve). I had 3 offers for SA: (2) NLJ250, and (1) v60-70. Prior work experience. I received zero offers through OCI. This was all mass mail in home market.

[Anonymous User]

MVP bottom. 40-45% 2L: 1 NLJ 250, 1 secondary market paying firm and 1 slightly below in the same secondary market. Also, no work experience and came straight through. Interview very well.

[thebigspoon]

I'm chiming in as well! T20, 3L, Bottom 25%, Hard Science. Just got an offer this morning for a market-paying ip boutique (160k) in Chicago for after I graduate in May. For the law students who look down upon the kids not in the top 25th percentile and who make side comments left and right and exude "holier than thou" attitudes....all I have to say is: Suckers!!

It can be done my friends!! Good luck!!!

IPSECURE, bro!

It's a little vindicating - those english and history majors that made fun of us in UG as we studied through the weekend sure wish they had our engineering degrees now!

These stories are actually pretty common, and ipsecure is legit. However, most of these are likely EE or CS/CE degrees. I have a physics degree, and while I was able to secure secondary market biglaw, I have decent grades it wasn't nearly as easy as some of my friends, and my bio friends are even worse off than me.

Basically, there are varying degrees of ipsecure. Do EE or computer stuff.

sorry for derailing the thread a little but do you have an estimate of how much of a boost having a non EE/CS hard science or engineering would give?

[Anonymous User]

MVP bottom. 40-45% 2L: 1 NLJ 250, 1 secondary market paying firm and 1 slightly below in the same secondary market. Also, no work experience and came straight through. Interview very well.

Can I ask if you mean that you had bottom 1L grades, 2L grades at 40-45%, and then got your job through 3L OCI? If so, can I also ask what you did 2L summer, and how bottom do you mean by 'bottom'? Very sad MVP 2L here, looking for any hope for the future ... thanks a lot! (if you're uncomfortable sharing here, perhaps pm? thank you!)