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Just curious...I always read about people hating biglaw etc...so I'd like to know-do you know anyone who liked working at a large law firm?

The women's husband in the TLS article about being in a biglaw relationship liked it.

It depends on what you mean by "like". If you mean "like" it as a job then yes, I think there are many people who like it as a job though find it stressful at times. At some point, everyone hates their job because there will be parts you don't want to do, or times when you would rather spend time with family/friends/your hobby.

If you mean "like" as in the person would rather be doing big law than anything else in life, there aren't many who feel this way (though there are some).

The most challenging part is the hours.

Typically weirdos enjoy it. These are usually the type of people that actually enjoy the concept of working and their lives revolve around their careers. They put their professional careers ahead of their personal lives, including their families and children. These people literally live to work. Obviously, this is a huge generalization and not everyone that enjoys biglaw is like that, but I think most people that enjoy jobs like biglaw, I-banking, or are successful in the corporate world (i.e. executives in large corporations) are like this. I recall talking to one of the high up executives at Walgreens when I was there and I asked him about how he balances his personal life with work and he basically just said that he has an understanding spouse and is gone from Monday-Thursday (because he works in a different region in the country), and then he reports back to headquarters on Friday and sees his family from Friday-Sunday when he isn't working (or traveling to or from the region he works in M-Th). I think it's safe to say this guy's life revolves around work.

CGI Fridays wrote:The women's husband in the TLS article about being in a biglaw relationship liked it.

Haha

Yup. He enjoyed working on big deals, having a ton of responsibility for someone his age, and being able to drop money without really thinking about it.

I'd venture retired partners enjoy it.

The rate of dissatisfaction tends to be highest with the most junior people. This is for two reasons:

#1: Junior people usually get lower quality work
#2: The people who really dislike the work generally get out before they get past the Junior level

The above holds in most career tracks.


The idea that the only people who enjoy biglaw are antisocial workaholics is very untrue. Most people who enjoy biglaw like it because they are genuinely interested in the work. They are people who enjoy giving advice and/or advocating on behalf of a client, and like the sense of power and responsibility that comes with working on big deals/cases. Sure, there are some who ignore their families, but certainly not all. A lot perform superhuman feats of endurance to be there for their families and for their jobs.

nealric wrote:The rate of dissatisfaction tends to be highest with the most junior people. This is for two reasons:

#1: Junior people usually get lower quality work
#2: The people who really dislike the work generally get out before they get past the Junior level

The above holds in most career tracks.

This. You won't find too many higher ups hating the work. They might regret missing family etc, but they will enjoy the work.

A job is a good job if the good/mediocre days > bad days

nealric wrote:The rate of dissatisfaction tends to be highest with the most junior people. This is for two reasons:

#1: Junior people usually get lower quality work
#2: The people who really dislike the work generally get out before they get past the Junior level

The above holds in most career tracks.


The idea that the only people who enjoy biglaw are antisocial workaholics is very untrue. Most people who enjoy biglaw like it because they are genuinely interested in the work. They are people who enjoy giving advice and/or advocating on behalf of a client, and like the sense of power and responsibility that comes with working on big deals/cases. Sure, there are some who ignore their families, but certainly not all. A lot perform superhuman feats of endurance to be there for their families and for their jobs.

My dad used to (and still does) work 60-80 hour weeks. He's a workaholic. He has no hobbies, doesn't watch sports, etc. His contact with friends is limited to lunches near work and the occasional dinner party. He doesn't really take vacations and works through the weekend.

Yet, he's always been very involved with his family. He made conscious trade-offs. His time is either spent working or attending to his family. When my brother and I were teenagers, his schedule would involve working in the morning (we got up at noon), taking us to lunch, working some more, making us dinner, then working some more until bed.

Ultimately, you gotta pick what you want. You can have a demanding career and a family but you gotta realize that those two will occupy 100% of your time. If you also want an active social life and friends, etc, or hobbies and time to yourself, something will have to give.

rayiner wrote:y dad used to (and still does) work 60-80 hour weeks. He's a workaholic. He has no hobbies, doesn't watch sports, etc. His contact with friends is limited to lunches near work and the occasional dinner party. He doesn't really take vacations and works through the weekend.

Yet, he's always been very involved with his family. He made conscious trade-offs. His time is either spent working or attending to his family. When my brother and I were teenagers, his schedule would involve working in the morning (we got up at noon), taking us to lunch, working some more, making us dinner, then working some more until bed.

Ultimately, you gotta pick what you want. You can have a demanding career and a family but you gotta realize that those two will occupy 100% of your time. If you also want an active social life and friends, etc, or hobbies and time to yourself, something will have to give.

+1. My dad is a retired attorney. he worked at a large firm. He made good money. He worked hard. He didn't miss birthdays, and rarely missed a soccer game. Heres my two cents from growing up with a big-law dad (though this was in a secondary market so it's probably not reflective of some of the largest markets): There would be a week stretch where I never saw my dad, except for in the morning before school; sometimes a two week stretch. Then he would be home for dinner every night for a few weeks... He may have averaged 50 or 60 hours a week, but working 48 weeks a year, 55 hours per week is just not the way it works (thank god).

As far as enjoying the work; he did. he's now retired and plays golf every day. Is the work for everyone? no. Are the unusual hours for everyone? no. but certainly people are happy working in big firms, and can have lives outside of work.

I know this is rare, but I interviewed with the most relaxed and laidback midlevel biglaw attorney who absolutely loved his job. He just had a great perspective. He works 10-6 everyday and works from home if absolutely necessary (aka, rarely). He said some months are crazy but he knows it's only temporary. Also he wasn't gunning for partner, and he just had a great attitude about not seeing biglaw as the end-all-be-all. Obviously part of it is a better firm culture that doesn't demand face time, but he made a point that there are people in his department who are miserable year after year just because of the stress that they take on themselves.

While I take what he says with a grain of salt (I think it depends more on the firm and the fact that his work must be excellent to begin with), I think it's true that it's the perspective that you spin on it and your ability to recognize that you decided to walk down this path and take everything that comes along with it. I'm pretty laidback, and I see people at law school in the same classes as me that are about 50x more stressed out. There are just some people who never stop complaining and stressing, and then there are those that recognize that at the end of the day, not everything hinges on this one class or job.

If you find yourself at a place with good interesting work and respectful friendly bosses, you are way more likely to enjoy it, irrespective of the actual number of hours your working. To me, this is the issue most young lawyers face. The ones that have awful assholes as bosses tend to hate it. The ones who have good bosses with interesting work tend to enjoy it. To me, its much less about the institution of a law firm (big, medium or small), than it is about the quality of the work and the people you are working with that make the biggest difference in how happy you are with your career as a young attorney. I left a mid-sized firm for a small firm on wall street. I am beyond happy I did. I work almost as much, but I'm way happier while i'm working because the quality of the people and the work is better than it was before..

reasonable_man wrote:If you find yourself at a place with good interesting work and respectful friendly bosses, you are way more likely to enjoy it, irrespective of the actual number of hours your working. To me, this is the issue most young lawyers face. The ones that have awful assholes as bosses tend to hate it. The ones who have good bosses with interesting work tend to enjoy it. To me, its much less about the institution of a law firm (big, medium or small), than it is about the quality of the work and the people you are working with that make the biggest difference in how happy you are with your career as a young attorney. I left a mid-sized firm for a small firm on wall street. I am beyond happy I did. I work almost as much, but I'm way happier while i'm working because the quality of the people and the work is better than it was before..

Great post. For what it is worth, I read an article once that said law students are most concerned with firm prestige, compensation, and chance of making partner. Whereas people who have actually practiced preferred quality of work, being treated with respect by their partners/peers, and quality of training they were receiving on the job.

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

reasonable_man wrote:If you find yourself at a place with good interesting work and respectful friendly bosses, you are way more likely to enjoy it, irrespective of the actual number of hours your working. To me, this is the issue most young lawyers face. The ones that have awful assholes as bosses tend to hate it. The ones who have good bosses with interesting work tend to enjoy it. To me, its much less about the institution of a law firm (big, medium or small), than it is about the quality of the work and the people you are working with that make the biggest difference in how happy you are with your career as a young attorney. I left a mid-sized firm for a small firm on wall street. I am beyond happy I did. I work almost as much, but I'm way happier while i'm working because the quality of the people and the work is better than it was before..

Great post. For what it is worth, I read an article once that said law students are most concerned with firm prestige, compensation, and chance of making partner. Whereas people who have actually practiced preferred quality of work, being treated with respect by their partners/peers, and quality of training they were receiving on the job.

This is pretty accurate. What I think is important today is way different than what I valued when I was a 0L, 1L, 2L or 3L...

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

reasonable_man wrote:If you find yourself at a place with good interesting work and respectful friendly bosses, you are way more likely to enjoy it, irrespective of the actual number of hours your working. To me, this is the issue most young lawyers face. The ones that have awful assholes as bosses tend to hate it. The ones who have good bosses with interesting work tend to enjoy it. To me, its much less about the institution of a law firm (big, medium or small), than it is about the quality of the work and the people you are working with that make the biggest difference in how happy you are with your career as a young attorney. I left a mid-sized firm for a small firm on wall street. I am beyond happy I did. I work almost as much, but I'm way happier while i'm working because the quality of the people and the work is better than it was before..

Great post. For what it is worth, I read an article once that said law students are most concerned with firm prestige, compensation, and chance of making partner. Whereas people who have actually practiced preferred quality of work, being treated with respect by their partners/peers, and quality of training they were receiving on the job.

I think this is one reason why WE before law school is the way to go. Work enough jobs and you quickly realize that it doesn't really matter how much money you make if you hate the work you do, have awful co-workers or bosses, or have no life/friends/family/time.

Whereas people who have actually practiced preferred quality of work, being treated with respect by their partners/peers, and quality of training they were receiving on the job.

The problem is that there is often no accurate way to evaluate how you will be treated or what kind of training you will get before you start a job. Every firm says they are "collegial" and "value training", but not all do. If you are interviewing with a firm of any size, you will never meet the less friendly people- as they won't be put on interview schedules.

Moreover, law students aren't really able to compare biglaw to small law or government because the hiring timelines are different.

The problem law students face is this: Not only are you desperately trying to find a place that will give you the training foundation you need your career in a market that doesn't really value people without experience, you are doing it in the dark.

nealric wrote:

Whereas people who have actually practiced preferred quality of work, being treated with respect by their partners/peers, and quality of training they were receiving on the job.

The problem is that there is often no accurate way to evaluate how you will be treated or what kind of training you will get before you start a job. Every firm says they are "collegial" and "value training", but not all do. If you are interviewing with a firm of any size, you will never meet the less friendly people- as they won't be put on interview schedules.

Moreover, law students aren't really able to compare biglaw to small law or government because the hiring timelines are different.

The problem law students face is this: Not only are you desperately trying to find a place that will give you the training foundation you need your career in a market that doesn't really value people without experience, you are doing it in the dark.

I totally agree with you on that. I am still in law school too so I can totally vouch to all the nice wining and dining. That said, I think it is undeniable law student's are hyper concerned with prestige, money, etc.