Top Law Schools

for first year associates?
edit^ shitlaw included

Nothing = I'm serious

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Nothing = I'm serious

WOW. I heard of some small shops in really tiny markets paying as low as 45k starting, but not nothing. I don't understand why you would take it? Is it contingency fee based?

I guess if you have no other firm options and you really want to do firm work, it is a good idea.

I wouldn't do it or recommend it.

But that's me.

Lowest I know of is 55k in NYC.

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Nothing = I'm serious

WOW. I heard of some small shops in really tiny markets paying as low as 45k starting, but not nothing. I don't understand why you would take it? Is it contingency fee based?

Lowest you've heard is 45k? Wow. Thats a lot actually. I've heard 32k.

Blindmelon wrote:

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Nothing = I'm serious

WOW. I heard of some small shops in really tiny markets paying as low as 45k starting, but not nothing. I don't understand why you would take it? Is it contingency fee based?

Lowest you've heard is 45k? Wow. Thats a lot actually. I've heard 32k.

What kind of market?

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Nothing = I'm serious

WOW. I heard of some small shops in really tiny markets paying as low as 45k starting, but not nothing. I don't understand why you would take it? Is it contingency fee based?

Lowest you've heard is 45k? Wow. Thats a lot actually. I've heard 32k.

What kind of market?

Boston.

NYC and NJ Shitlaw can pay as low as 35K... But that's on the extreme. Typical entry level shitlaw will pay 40 to 45k. I had friends that were religated to this... (Go SJU, NYLS, BLS and Carschmozo!), and from what I gather, killself is the better option, as you work just as hard as you do in Biglaw, for 1/4 or 1/5 of the money... And then you get to how the "partners" treat the "associates."

reasonable_man wrote:NYC and NJ Shitlaw can pay as low as 35K... But that's on the extreme. Typical entry level shitlaw will pay 40 to 45k. I had friends that were religated to this... (Go SJU, NYLS, BLS and Carschmozo!), and from what I gather, killself is the better option, as you work just as hard as you do in Biglaw, for 1/4 or 1/5 of the money... And then you get to how the "partners" treat the "associates."

Yep, this is exactly what I've heard. I knew a guy who took one of these jobs, makes 40-45k, works the same amount of hours as biglaw. That said, he seems to really enjoy the work environment so I can't speak to how the partners treat him, I presume ok.

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Nothing = I'm serious

WOW. I heard of some small shops in really tiny markets paying as low as 45k starting, but not nothing. I don't understand why you would take it? Is it contingency fee based?

I've heard of nothing. Typically, it happens in really small shops in really small markets (1-2 partner firms which might employ 10 people total). It is an extended job interview. You work for a certain number of months for free with the understanding that if you prove yourself, you will get hired on as a salaried member of the firm.

It is kind of a necessity for these small firms. They don't have the money to hire on associates only to have them leave in a year, so they can't be sinking money into them while they are still pretty useless. Also, they don't have to/get to hire every year like the big firms do, so they are a lot more careful about it.

That said, I would never do it myself. If it came to that, I would be getting a job doing something else. Hell, I think I would go to culinary school first. Or go try out for the Blizzard creative team. Or just go back and work in Engineering. You gotta REALLY want to work as a lawyer in Podunk, USA to put yourself through the ringer for these jobs. Or else be incredibly desperate with no marketable skills.

buddy did a cb at pitt/cinci firm summer 3k for 10 weeks. 35k starting.

Anonymous User wrote:buddy did a cb at pitt/cinci firm summer 3k for 10 weeks. 35k starting.

$3,000 total for ten weeks of work? WOW. That is less than Biglaw pays in a week. In fact, that is only half of what they should be getting if the salary was prorated like it usually is. That's brutal.

I'm a 2010 grad and I make ~$45k at a very small firm. However I only work 9-5. My salary is not especially low for a recent grad in a small firm. The lowest I have heard of is $20k but $35k is not uncommon. These are the type of jobs that most grads will be looking at to start.

phillylawgrad wrote:I'm a 2010 grad and I make ~$45k at a very small firm. However I only work 9-5. My salary is not especially low for a recent grad in a small firm. The lowest I have heard of is $20k but $35k is not uncommon. These are the type of jobs that most grads will be looking at to start.

This is not uncommon at all.. Earning 65k to start and moving up to 80k in my second year has put me some 25 ro 35k ahead of most of the people I graduated with in 2008 from my school or equall TTTs like SJU, BLS, etc.

Salary? At a lot of small firms, you eat what you kill. You don't get salary, you work on commission. Most attorneys newly farted out of the law skkkool machine suck money from a firm like a cokehead lottery winner, and have no idea how actually to practice law. This profession, for 90% of practitioners, is first and foremost about sales. You'd better be good at it, or enjoy the last few years of doc review before it's all outsourced to India.

Inmilex wrote:Salary? At a lot of small firms, you eat what you kill. You don't get salary, you work on commission. Most attorneys newly farted out of the law skkkool machine suck money from a firm like a cokehead lottery winner, and have no idea how actually to practice law. This profession, for 90% of practitioners, is first and foremost about sales. You'd better be good at it, or enjoy the last few years of doc review before it's all outsourced to India.

What if you don't have any sales skills?

reasonable_man wrote:

phillylawgrad wrote:I'm a 2010 grad and I make ~$45k at a very small firm. However I only work 9-5. My salary is not especially low for a recent grad in a small firm. The lowest I have heard of is $20k but $35k is not uncommon. These are the type of jobs that most grads will be looking at to start.

This is not uncommon at all.. Earning 65k to start and moving up to 80k in my second year has put me some 25 ro 35k ahead of most of the people I graduated with in 2008 from my school or equall TTTs like SJU, BLS, etc.

Could a well-below-median T14 or T30 grad easily get such $45-50k jobs with 40-50 hour weeks?

reasonable_man wrote:

phillylawgrad wrote:I'm a 2010 grad and I make ~$45k at a very small firm. However I only work 9-5. My salary is not especially low for a recent grad in a small firm. The lowest I have heard of is $20k but $35k is not uncommon. These are the type of jobs that most grads will be looking at to start.

This is not uncommon at all.. Earning 65k to start and moving up to 80k in my second year has put me some 25 ro 35k ahead of most of the people I graduated with in 2008 from my school or equall TTTs like SJU, BLS, etc. I'm a douche.

Fixed

Is a firm legit if they want YOU to pay THEM to work there? I got an offer from one such firm.

Is the firm called Gotti Gambini & Corleone? Cuz if so, then yes.

Anonymous User wrote:Is a firm legit if they want YOU to pay THEM to work there? I got an offer from one such firm.

Haha, I'd like to hear what the terms of this offer were. Ouch.

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Is a firm legit if they want YOU to pay THEM to work there? I got an offer from one such firm.

Haha, I'd like to hear what the terms of this offer were. Ouch.

Ouchie-Momma!

I worked as a paralegal at small-town shitlaw before law school. Regional firm, about 15 attorneys in a few small offices.

New associates were not on salary. Pay for new associates (and all non-partner attorneys) was a complex formulation of hours billed/your negotiated percentage cut of your hourly rate/whether the client's account had been paid. Basically, associates were paid for hours they billed IF AND ONLY IF the client paid, at which point they would receive their cut of their billables for that client (typically 35 to 40 percent of an average new associate hourly rate of $275).

So paychecks tended to vary a lot. I heard of people not getting a paycheck in some months, or piddly ones like $800. Most months you were pulling in a (relatively) more reasonable 4,5,6k. It was all over the place though. I would estimate if you took a year, the lowest someone could make would be $35k to $40k (since any attorney would have to be total dumbass to agree to work for less than I was making as a paralegal/receptionist).

Senior attorneys were, however, notorious for drilling free work out of the newbies. Sticking them with three hours a day of phone calls from potential clients (unbillable, particularly if they don't sign up), etc. Or the partners would take a client, work the case until the retainer ran out and then punt it to someone else, and let a junior take the risk that they wouldn't get paid.

(Anon because it'd be totally obvious who I am based on previous posts on TLS, and I don't plan on spoiling my reference.)

tryster0 wrote:

reasonable_man wrote:

phillylawgrad wrote:I'm a 2010 grad and I make ~$45k at a very small firm. However I only work 9-5. My salary is not especially low for a recent grad in a small firm. The lowest I have heard of is $20k but $35k is not uncommon. These are the type of jobs that most grads will be looking at to start.

This is not uncommon at all.. Earning 65k to start and moving up to 80k in my second year has put me some 25 ro 35k ahead of most of the people I graduated with in 2008 from my school or equall TTTs like SJU, BLS, etc. I'm a douche.

Fixed

lolwut