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OCI has come down to this; neither is my top choice but I'm grateful just to have any offers at all, and was hoping TLS could help me decide. I'm leaning towards litigation right now, which might favor going to FF because I know Orrick is skewed towards finance/corporate. Anybody have any insight on the office cultures? Neither really has a reputation as a sweatshop, as far as I know. Also, should I be as worried as I am about Orrick's financials? They've deferred multiple summer classes; I know someone who graduated last year who won't be starting there until January 2012. From what I understand, the firm even canceled last year's summer class to offset the influx of deferred associates. I've spoken to recruiting there, but should I take their word for it if they say that full offers and no deferrals are "anticipated." The merger situation also worries me. Orrick has tried to no avail to merger multiple times: I'm getting worried that these other firms are getting a look at Orrick's books and not liking what they see. All that being said, the people I've met there are fantastic. The same can be said, though, for Fried Frank. Any insight or advice could be helpful. Thanks in advance, TLS.

I vote Fried Frank for NY, just b/c it's more well-known in NYC. Also, compensation differences seem big. Orrick has that meritorious compensation thing (new talent model) they just started which might be a downside.

For example:

Fried Frank (on the newest Vault guide) mentions that salaries haven't been frozen and the 2009 bonuses were generous when compared to the market.

Orrick's profile says that the 160 starting is just to keep up appearances for recruits, but for every class thereafter, Orrick pays a lower base salary than lockstep. They also have "tiers" of compensation - associate, managing associate, senior associate. Salary increases depend on "promotions" to these other versions of associate.

I'd check out the compensation sections for each firm on the full Vault guide if you haven't done so already. Compensation seems drastically different between the two firms.

Edit: Oh, and both are great firms, so congrats for landing two really good offers!!! =)

Why am I the only one responding? I guess it's because I need a break before my 6:15 class. Sigh.

See also:

Fried Frank compensation: http://www.chambers-associate.com/FirmFeature/3840/9

versus

Orrick compensation: http://www.chambers-associate.com/FirmFeature/7290/9

After reading them both, it seems as if both are actually tied to performance/billables.....

Thanks for the responses, Izzies. I didn't even think of factoring in pay since I thought it was pretty standard across NY big law, but it's definitely something I'll look into now.

I'd look into Orrick's merger stuff before deciding. They may become Orrick XXX in a timeframe that is meaningful to you. Matters for everything from firm size to offices, PPP, and partner retention.

Fried Frank makes me think of a BBQ.

Orrick also made the Layoff Tracker's Top 10 list:

http://lawshucks.com/layoff-tracker/lay ... -10-lists/

vamedic03 wrote:Orrick also made the Layoff Tracker's Top 10 list:

http://lawshucks.com/layoff-tracker/lay ... -10-lists/

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. Only problem is, I never know how to interpret things like this. Maybe it's better to be at a firm that cut really deep, as there will be less to pare away if the economy takes another big downturn. Then again, it could also signify that streams of business they relied on dried up, never to return.

Also, 9-9 on the poll, haha. Thanks guys!

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the responses, Izzies. I didn't even think of factoring in pay since I thought it was pretty standard across NY big law, but it's definitely something I'll look into now.

Yeah - pay isn't standardized any more the way it used to be. There are some firms that start at 145 (although this doesn't apply to either of your choices), some firms that don't do lockstep bonuses and instead do talent models or attach bonuses to billables, and some firms that don't pay market bonus rate. Just something to think about.