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Jobless 3L here at T-14. Struck out 2L OCI and 3L OCI was a joke. I've mass mailed hundreds of firms, and so far dings. Considering the apparent lack of opportunities and the clear incompetence of the school's careers office, I am losing hope. And at this point, I don't really know what is the value of continuing to try anymore. For those in a similar situation, what are doing to keep yourself plugged into the school and motivated. I just need some advice for how to deal with this year.

Have you tried applying to anything other than firms?

Yeah. I am in the process of applying to government stuff. Also looking at non-legal stuff too (which of course carries its own emotional hang-ups --> I went through 3 yrs / massive debt only to do nothing with the law).

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OP here - I am around the median. I applied for some big government (DOJ - computer crime division, FCC, etc). I got an unpaid internship with the FCC, but it came after I accepted a summer internship in a corporate legal dept which unfortunately does not hire new law grads.

Also as for networking, I did some informational interviews at the end of 2L year (did not go anywhere). I am also working on trying to set up informational interviews now just to get my name out there. I am also attending events by the city's bar association... I don't know if "networking" includes much more than those efforts...

What about career services leads you to the conclusion that they are incompetent?

Aqualibrium wrote:What about career services leads you to the conclusion that they are incompetent?

Career Services at most T14 seem to exist to schedule OCI and that is it. After that there is not much they can do except give you standard job hunting advice. It is not as if ppl in CS Office can get you a job.

If you went to a fairly unique UG/LS combo (say, TTT state to Ivy), try and search for people who did that as well and reach out to them, strike up a conversation, and see if they can help you out.

Aqualibrium wrote:What about career services leads you to the conclusion that they are incompetent?

They're like a 24/7 convenience store that is well lit, always fully stocked, and staffed with cheerful clerks but the only thing they sell is various brands of suppositories.

Kohinoor wrote:

Aqualibrium wrote:What about career services leads you to the conclusion that they are incompetent?

They're like a 24/7 convenience store that is well lit, always fully stocked, and staffed with cheerful clerks but the only thing they sell is various brands of suppositories.

Is the problem that they don't insert the suppositories for you?

Is the problem that they don't insert the suppositories for you?

When the cost is $40,000 and then they turn around and tell you that they cannot do it for you, then yes, that is the problem.

MrAnon wrote:

Is the problem that they don't insert the suppositories for you?

When the cost is $40,000 and then they turn around and tell you that they cannot do it for you, then yes, that is the problem.

lol

I dunno, I think parts of our career services department have been doing a good job. At the very least, they have been very good about notifying people about jobs they might want to apply for. And a couple of the councilors actually know what they are talking about.

It's funny because I posted up my job hunt last year and this year (for a permanent position), and all the replies I get are "FLAME, FLAME, FLAME" because it's completely inconceivable to people someone that goes to a t14 school can't find a job. People just assume that if they don't get biglaw that some "shitlaw" $40k /year job is guaranteed simply because they go to a t14. Truth is even the crappiest of jobs out there have become unbelievably competitive because there are so few of those "crappy jobs" out there. IMO, for the most part, it's all over after 2L OCI for those of us that don't make it because the other options out there are really competitive as well (e.g. small law firms), and the school you go to and the grades you got seem to matter to a lesser degree (although they still matter).

Isn't it too early to be mass mailing firms? Small/mid sized firms aren't lining up their hiring for next fall yet.

reverendt wrote:Isn't it too early to be mass mailing firms? Small/mid sized firms aren't lining up their hiring for next fall yet.

Depends on the firm. Many/most midsized firms hire from a 2L summer class just like biglaw firms. Small firm hiring is all based on the firm (some will hire from their 2L summer clerks, some will hire now, some next spring, and some will hire after you pass the bar, etc.).

t14underground wrote:It's funny because I posted up my job hunt last year and this year (for a permanent position), and all the replies I get are "FLAME, FLAME, FLAME" because it's completely inconceivable to people someone that goes to a t14 school can't find a job. People just assume that if they don't get biglaw that some "shitlaw" $40k /year job is guaranteed simply because they go to a t14. Truth is even the crappiest of jobs out there have become unbelievably competitive because there are so few of those "crappy jobs" out there. IMO, for the most part, it's all over after 2L OCI for those of us that don't make it because the other options out there are really competitive as well (e.g. small law firms), and the school you go to and the grades you got seem to matter to a lesser degree (although they still matter).

FLAME

i was in a similar situation coming into 3L. i just mailed a shitload of firms and wound up getting an interview and offer recently. it was one of those things where you would not have seen it coming, so my only advice would be to keep plugging away if you are set on a firm. it's getting late, but not late enough that all hope is lost.

Anonymous User wrote:

Aqualibrium wrote:What about career services leads you to the conclusion that they are incompetent?

Career Services at most T14 seem to exist to schedule OCI and that is it. After that there is not much they can do except give you standard job hunting advice. It is not as if ppl in CS Office can get you a job.

Better than zero OCI like at my school (TTT/TTTT). Our career services just tells us to mass mail, that's it.

Anonymous User wrote:If you went to a fairly unique UG/LS combo (say, TTT state to Ivy), try and search for people who did that as well and reach out to them, strike up a conversation, and see if they can help you out.

This. Martindale (school version) listed 8 people nationwide practicing at firms who went from my UG to any law school. I emailed the ones in New York, and one invited me to have coffee with her. I don't view this as job hunting, per se, but for the type of work I want to do, mass mailing is useless. I won't get hired unless someone knows who I am and recommends me, and I think this may be common outside the types of large firms and organizations most TLSers go for. I do feel for you, OP. I'm not at a T14, obviously, and I may be in your situation next year. I am not sure.

And to Kohinoor: one of the better quips I have seen recently. Awarded 178 for effort and accuracy.

OP: Don't hang your head in shame. It's easy to say, "I just don't have it -- whatever "it" is." Listening to conversations at Michigan, you're not in the minority. Jobs are hard to come by. Even those that secured jobs as SA's have no guarantee of an offer. These are REALLY SHITTY times. People from Harvard and Yale are applying to positions that would have never garnered their interest in the past. Tough market, but stick it out.
If you're truly committed to attaining a position at a firm, then I think there have been many posts in this thread to motivate you. If you're not, then it's time to think outside the box.
Jobs at firms are becoming more scarce. It's just a bad time to want/need to be a lawyer. However, look to people like Ken. We wouldn't have this place to post our frustrations (top-law-schools.com) if not for his ingenuity. Law school can teach you a basic skill set that is invaluable. Network and make the most of your 3L. Many wealthy holders of a JD did not go the traditional BigLaw route -- or any law route.
It's a big world out there. Bust ass and go against the grain. I don't want to practice law, even though I have a nice job lined up. I've been investing my time into other endeavors. The Michigan name has been invaluable in those endeavors. By the looks of it, I will be able to forgo a BigLaw job and follow my interests -- while making close to the same amount.
Good luck bro -- keep your head high.

OP are we talking lower T14 DCNG? or MVPB? I dont think you are talking CCN. Just curious. Hopefully you can find something. I dont know if you have looked into it but agencies such as FBI, CIA, SS all LOVE hiring people with law degrees. The jobs are not amazing and not much about the law but the pay is decent (you do start higher with a JD) but not amazing. I dont know just an idea.

Bosque wrote:I dunno, I think parts of our career services department have been doing a good job. At the very least, they have been very good about notifying people about jobs they might want to apply for. And a couple of the councilors actually know what they are talking about.

I have heard Duke has better CS then most T14, but i do find it funny that it says in their profile that 100% of the class has employment upon graduation. Whats the deal with that? I mean do people just line up non-legal jobs or do they just not report the people who dont have any offers?

jt1341 wrote:

Bosque wrote:I dunno, I think parts of our career services department have been doing a good job. At the very least, they have been very good about notifying people about jobs they might want to apply for. And a couple of the councilors actually know what they are talking about.

I have heard Duke has better CS then most T14, but i do find it funny that it says in their profile that 100% of the class has employment upon graduation. Whats the deal with that? I mean do people just line up non-legal jobs or do they just not report the people who dont have any offers?

First of all everyone reports jobs, not specifically legal jobs. But that is not really statistically relevant.

Duke's career placement IS good, let me make that clear. But the reason our stats are 100% is the bridge to practice program. Duke provides a stipend to people who can't get jobs so that they can take unpaid legal jobs (with the idea that they hopefully transition to real jobs). Not very many students have to take advantage of the program, but it makes up the difference between 98% and 100%.