Top Law Schools

Considering exit options, quality of life, and prestige for litigation in NY.

all of the above, you should put that button as one of the poll options.

You can't really "go wrong" at this point by making one of the above choices, you can certainly "go wrong" in how you practice in the first few years out, but at this juncture, I'm not sure what you can glean off a poll which can substitute your own instincts about these firms.

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Kirkland is a lit powerhouse. Deb is better known for corporate. I voted for Kirkland.

NYAssociate wrote:

yellowjacket2012 wrote:all of the above, you should put that button as one of the poll options.

You can't really "go wrong" at this point by making one of the above choices, you can certainly "go wrong" in how you practice in the first few years out, but at this juncture, I'm not sure what you can glean off a poll which can substitute your own instincts about these firms.

Eh, you can probably go wrong by going to Dewey or Cadwalader, probably also Weil.

Not really that much more than anywhere else.

i say either k&e or cadwalader for lit. cadwalader's lit group has gotten really, really, really good and i've been hearing decent things about the firm generally. k&e is obviously a known quantity, so it might be a safer choice.

Are these all NY offices? If so, I'd choose K&E. I actually had a similar choice in terms of options, and personally went with K&E - their litigation department is worlds stronger than the others.

its not going to be a MISTAKE to choose one of those firms over Kirkland for litigation. Kirkland markets themselves aggressively for the training, and for the litigation, and is a terrific firm to work for, but you're as likely to "go wrong" with Kirkland as you are with any of those other firms on that list. Kirkland's not in a league of its own to make it the runaway choice here. These are all band 2 or lower firms for New York litigation.

Throw Cravath in that list, and we're talking about a game-changer (for exit options), but you're not going to mess up at this point by picking one of the firms on this list.

All in NY. I agree about K&E's litigation group; however, I got a really good feel for the litigation people at Cad and thought that they seemed to be on the upswing reputation-wise.

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NYAssociate wrote:It's not just about the quality of the litigation groups that make Debevoise or Kirkland easy choices. It's also the job security.

+1

tw

Anonymous User wrote:All in NY. I agree about K&E's litigation group; however, I got a really good feel for the litigation people at Cad and thought that they seemed to be on the upswing reputation-wise.

two-three years ago i'd have said you were crazy...

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K&E, unless you want to do white collar, in which case Debevoise.

You really should not be considering Cadwalader, Weil or Dewey for both lit prestige and job security reasons unless they have some super-specialized niche that they're good at.

this discussion would make more sense if we were talking about Kirkland-Chicago.

yellowjacket2012 wrote:this discussion would make more sense if we were talking about Kirkland-Chicago.

You do realize, again, that what makes this an easy choice is not necessarily the caliber of the litigation groups, but job security. It's been mentioned various times in this thread.

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NYAssociate wrote:For example, I would think Debevoise is a clear runaway over Weil, Dewey, or Cadwalader, even though their lit group isn't that spectacular. In this economy, job security means a lot. And your perceptions about job security influence your quality of life. OP listed as his factors, "QOL," and "prestige." Aside from quality of life, Cadwalader and Dewey are almost certainly not prestigious firms.

All the talk about job security at Deb makes me laugh. They were hit just as hard as other firms, except they did it on the DL. The particular way they let people go was inhumane - including telling someone at 5pm they were being let go, escorting them out with security, and sending them their belongings within the next couple weeks. This and gathering a bunch in a room and saying "it's over - take what you can and leave." Not particularly nice.

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Anonymous User wrote:

NYAssociate wrote:For example, I would think Debevoise is a clear runaway over Weil, Dewey, or Cadwalader, even though their lit group isn't that spectacular. In this economy, job security means a lot. And your perceptions about job security influence your quality of life. OP listed as his factors, "QOL," and "prestige." Aside from quality of life, Cadwalader and Dewey are almost certainly not prestigious firms.

All the talk about job security at Deb makes me laugh. They were hit just as hard as other firms, except they did it on the DL. The particular way they let people go was inhumane - including telling someone at 5pm they were being let go, escorting them out with security, and sending them their belongings within the next couple weeks. This and gathering a bunch in a room and saying "it's over - take what you can and leave." Not particularly nice.

I wouldn't be surprised if they stealthed a bit (like DPW, S&C, etc.), but are you seriously suggesting the did so to an extent comparable to, for example, Cadwalader (~180 attorneys laid off)?

Seems like there has been a lot of anti-debevoise trolling on TLS lately.

NYAssociate wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

NYAssociate wrote:For example, I would think Debevoise is a clear runaway over Weil, Dewey, or Cadwalader, even though their lit group isn't that spectacular. In this economy, job security means a lot. And your perceptions about job security influence your quality of life. OP listed as his factors, "QOL," and "prestige." Aside from quality of life, Cadwalader and Dewey are almost certainly not prestigious firms.

All the talk about job security at Deb makes me laugh. They were hit just as hard as other firms, except they did it on the DL. The particular way they let people go was inhumane - including telling someone at 5pm they were being let go, escorting them out with security, and sending them their belongings within the next couple weeks. This and gathering a bunch in a room and saying "it's over - take what you can and leave." Not particularly nice.

Oh, in this economy, no firms are perfect. But we can all agree that Debevoise, Kirkland, and Weil have probably handled this better than Cadwalader and Dewey.

Edit: I don't care where specifically the OP goes, other than that, please, for the love of god, don't take Cadwalader or Dewey.

+1.

Comparing Debevoise, Kirkland, and Weil to Cadwalader and Dewey is absurd.

Kirkland is wayyyy overrated for IP, in the event OP is interested in that, I callback'd at two of their offices, NY being one of them, thoroughly unimpressive work/roster in comparison to some other places, one of their name guys left for Paul Hastings too, and another big-shot (Desmarais) quit before that, except Chicago, where they still do great IP work

Kirkland-NY has nowhere near the quality of ppl/work as Kirkland-Chicago, so as tempting as it is to talk up Kirkland, you gotta remember what location we're talking.

These are non-elite litigation shops in the New York, comparing between them is mostly academic. You can speculate away as to the differences.

Kirkland is wayyyy overrated for IP, in the event OP is interested in that, I callback'd at two of their offices, NY being one of them, thoroughly unimpressive work/roster, one of their name guys left for Paul Hastings too, and another big-shot (Desmarais) quit before that, except Chicago, where they still do great IP work

The partner departures are one thing, but the NY IP group is still handling a rather impressive array of high profile IP cases. I'm sad you didn't do your research.

Anonymous User wrote: The partner departures are one thing, but the NY IP group is still handling a rather impressive array of high profile IP cases. I'm sad you didn't do your research.

Oh I did a ton of research, in addition to considering desmarais llp, which btw is a great way to learn re Kirkland NY's practice than a callback at Kirkland NY itself. Doing research into IP cases was my full-time job over the last few months, and Kirkland NY came up way short relative to my other options (including Weil Redwood Shores, Irell LA, and Covington DC). If I *had* to be in NY for IP, I'd pick Ropes over Kirkland.

Maybe they're impressive to you, different standards.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: The partner departures are one thing, but the NY IP group is still handling a rather impressive array of high profile IP cases. I'm sad you didn't do your research.

Oh I did a ton of research, in addition to considering Desmarais LLP, where I strangely learned a whole lot more about Kirkland NY than my callback at Kirkland NY. Doing research into IP cases was my full-time job over the last few months, and Kirkland NY came up way short relative to my other options (including Weil Redwood Shores, Irell LA, and Covington DC)

You just don't sound very smart. I'll tell you why:

1) You're bashing the IP group when OP has expressed interest in litigation, not IP.
2) You're extrapolating from the caliber of the IP group that the entire office is somehow not good, especially in litigation.
3) Since I actually have seen the cases going through KE's IP roster, it's pretty definitive that it's fine.

But you can feel proud of yourself.