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? Also, is the consensus DC was the toughest market to land a biglaw gig?

Yes and yes, maybe SF/SV as toughest as well.

when someone says [insert city name] was the toughest/easiest market, just what exactly are they basing their opinion on? i mean there is no objective way measure this aside from a data compilation of ALL applicants, their grades and school ranges, when they applied, where they applied, their interview skills, and a million other variables. i don't really see how a "consensus" can be reached without it being based heavily on personal experiences/what they've heard.

Anonymous User wrote:when someone says [insert city name] was the toughest/easiest market, just what exactly are they basing their opinion on? i mean there is no objective way measure this aside from a data compilation of ALL applicants, their grades and school ranges, when they applied, where they applied, their interview skills, and a million other variables. i don't really see how a "consensus" can be reached without it being based heavily on personal experiences/what they've heard.

it's just pretty simple raw numbers. NY has nearly 3X the summer associate positions of the next largest market. i shunned NY initially and then came crawling back with my tail between my legs and got multiple offers.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:when someone says [insert city name] was the toughest/easiest market, just what exactly are they basing their opinion on? i mean there is no objective way measure this aside from a data compilation of ALL applicants, their grades and school ranges, when they applied, where they applied, their interview skills, and a million other variables. i don't really see how a "consensus" can be reached without it being based heavily on personal experiences/what they've heard.

it's just pretty simple raw numbers. NY has nearly 3X the summer associate positions of the next largest market. i shunned NY initially and then came crawling back with my tail between my legs and got multiple offers.

NY also has the most number of applicants, hands down. Not to mention that it is the where the two largest T14 law schools (entering class + transfers) are located.

NY was the easiest but that doesn't mean it wasn't tough in and of itself, when compared with other markets it was the easiest. I know plenty of HYS people who got nothing in NY.

I definitely found NY to be easier at both the screening and CB stage than Boston, the secondary market I targeted. DC was also easier for me, though that might have been a fluke.

I'm not certain about this consensus thing. NY may have more Biglaw guys, with NYU, Columbia, Penn, etc. right in the neighborhood.

New York has also been hardest hit by the recession. More than DC, LA, Chicago, or any other market. I would think that NY still has the highest number of unemployed lawyers. I would assume DC has a little less competition and a little more government work, along with a cheaper cost of living.

Spoonmanners wrote:I'm not certain about this consensus thing. NY may have more Biglaw guys, with NYU, Columbia, Penn, etc. right in the neighborhood.

New York has also been hardest hit by the recession. More than DC, LA, Chicago, or any other market. I would think that NY still has the highest number of unemployed lawyers. I would assume DC has a little less competition and a little more government work, along with a cheaper cost of living.

Is this a flame?

iwantawhiteiphone4 wrote:

Spoonmanners wrote:I'm not certain about this consensus thing. NY may have more Biglaw guys, with NYU, Columbia, Penn, etc. right in the neighborhood.

New York has also been hardest hit by the recession. More than DC, LA, Chicago, or any other market. I would think that NY still has the highest number of unemployed lawyers. I would assume DC has a little less competition and a little more government work, along with a cheaper cost of living.

Is this a flame?

Never attribute to malice that which can be easily dismissed as a clueless 0L.

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While I have no hard data to support this, my theory is that the NYC firms, more so than firms in other cities (or even offices of NYC firms in other cities) were more likely to cut to the bone during the worst of the recession with their layoffs. Then, when the economy picked up even a little bit, they realized that they needed bodies. And because BigLaw only knows how to hire en masse one way, you get the disparity in reported OCI success rates.

It's probably too late to apply to NYC firms, though, right?

Maybe I should run back to them with my tail between my legs, too. Ugh. I just hate the thought of being in NYC. Only ... well, only somewhat more than the thought of being unemployed.

bwv812 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:NY also has the most number of applicants, hands down. Not to mention that it is the where the two largest T14 law schools (entering class + transfers) are located.

Harvard and Georgetown are both in NYC? Weird.

Oh haha oops. You're right, I forgot Georgetown. As for Harvard, Columbia's class size is actually bigger than Harvard's after transfers.

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Spoonmanners wrote:I'm not certain about this consensus thing. NY may have more Biglaw guys, with NYU, Columbia, Penn, etc. right in the neighborhood.

New York has also been hardest hit by the recession. More than DC, LA, Chicago, or any other market. I would think that NY still has the highest number of unemployed lawyers. I would assume DC has a little less competition and a little more government work, along with a cheaper cost of living.

Setting aside several falsehoods and fallacies here, lol @ biglaw ever hiring an unemployed lawyer.

Spoonmanners wrote:I'm not certain about this consensus thing. NY may have more Biglaw guys, with NYU, Columbia, Penn, etc. right in the neighborhood.

New York has also been hardest hit by the recession. More than DC, LA, Chicago, or any other market. I would think that NY still has the highest number of unemployed lawyers. I would assume DC has a little less competition and a little more government work, along with a cheaper cost of living.

This post is why we shouldn't let 0Ls post in the legal employment forum.

RVP11 wrote:

Spoonmanners wrote:I'm not certain about this consensus thing. NY may have more Biglaw guys, with NYU, Columbia, Penn, etc. right in the neighborhood.

New York has also been hardest hit by the recession. More than DC, LA, Chicago, or any other market. I would think that NY still has the highest number of unemployed lawyers. I would assume DC has a little less competition and a little more government work, along with a cheaper cost of living.

This post is why we shouldn't let 0Ls post in the legal employment forum.

There should be a wall of shame that we can send misbehaving 0Ls to.

bwv812 wrote:As for the easiest market, if you come from a good school I think that any local/tertiary market you have ties to is going to be easier than any major market.

This is hit and miss. The small markets have exceedingly small associate classes. They can end up being pretty selective sometimes. It's probably sort of a random factor of what candidates happen to be interested in that particular year.

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NYAssociate wrote:

NY was the easiest but that doesn't mean it wasn't tough in and of itself, when compared with other markets it was the easiest. I know plenty of HYS people who got nothing in NY.

Yes, we all know the definition of "easiest."

I can't quit you.

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Chicago was hardest.

vanwinkle wrote:

iwantawhiteiphone4 wrote:

Spoonmanners wrote:I'm not certain about this consensus thing. NY may have more Biglaw guys, with NYU, Columbia, Penn, etc. right in the neighborhood.

New York has also been hardest hit by the recession. More than DC, LA, Chicago, or any other market. I would think that NY still has the highest number of unemployed lawyers. I would assume DC has a little less competition and a little more government work, along with a cheaper cost of living.

Is this a flame?

Never attribute to malice that which can be easily dismissed as a clueless 0L.

The guy's profile says IU 2012. He is, in fact, a clueless 2L.