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Have SA offer at both places. Can't make up my mind. Any help?

in my experience Cleary people are weird, or they say "quirky." go with Weil

Weil, if I recall correctly, had worse statistics in terms of summer class size / offer rates / etc. as a result of the down turn. All else being equal, I at least would weigh that heavily when making the decision.

Anonymous User wrote:Have SA offer at both places. Can't make up my mind. Any help?

Which office? and don't pay attention to the 'Cleary' is weird because some anonymous poster met a couple weird people who work there. I swear that people are giving awful advice nowadays.

Interesting question.

You might consider office location too. Do you want to be in midtown or the financial district?

Also would you mind sharing cb to offer time from Weil?

Anonymous User wrote:You might consider office location too. Do you want to be in midtown or the financial district?

Also would you mind sharing cb to offer time from Weil?

Interviewed on a Friday, got the Offer Tuesday night.

Cleary by a longshot.

RVP11 wrote:Cleary by a longshot.

No offense, but these kind of posts aren't helpful at all. Care to elaborate on your reasoning?

matty wrote:

RVP11 wrote:Cleary by a longshot.

No offense, but these kind of posts aren't helpful at all. Care to elaborate on your reasoning?

Thanks.

Cleary.

See Weil's offer rates and deferrals.

The advice about checking offer and deferral rates is credited. Also, I worked at Cleary in a non-legal position. At least in my area, and from all I could see and hear about the rest of the place, it really is a collegial place compared to many others. A dude in my dep't used to work in the same dep't at Weil and said it was miserable.

Weil offered 20/20 of its summers last year...seems to be the better comparison than before the crash hit?

Anonymous User wrote:Weil offered 20/20 of its summers last year...seems to be the better comparison than before the crash hit?

Wut? In 2009, its offer rate was around 80%. Summer 2010 was, of course, much better. But a double dip is quite possible and, at any rate, weil has a sizable contingent of deferred associates out there. Cleary is a much better pick from this perspective. In many practice areas, Cleary is also better regarded. IMO, unless you really love bankruptcy or really hated the people at Cleary, this is a no-brainer.

vamedic03 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Have SA offer at both places. Can't make up my mind. Any help?

Which office? and don't pay attention to the 'Cleary' is weird because some anonymous poster met a couple weird people who work there. I swear that people are giving awful advice nowadays.

I'm the one who made that remark, which I admit seems a bit flippant. But I wasn't trying to be flippant. I know about 5 first years there, and socially, they all suck. They were all also hand-selected by Cleary's hiring committee. Just sayin.

Anonymous User wrote:

vamedic03 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Have SA offer at both places. Can't make up my mind. Any help?

Which office? and don't pay attention to the 'Cleary' is weird because some anonymous poster met a couple weird people who work there. I swear that people are giving awful advice nowadays.

I'm the one who made that remark, which I admit seems a bit flippant. But I wasn't trying to be flippant. I know about 5 first years there, and socially, they all suck. They were all also hand-selected by Cleary's hiring committee. Just sayin.

Yeah, this is probably a dumb way of assessing the weirdness of a given firm.

edcrane wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

vamedic03 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Have SA offer at both places. Can't make up my mind. Any help?

Which office? and don't pay attention to the 'Cleary' is weird because some anonymous poster met a couple weird people who work there. I swear that people are giving awful advice nowadays.

I'm the one who made that remark, which I admit seems a bit flippant. But I wasn't trying to be flippant. I know about 5 first years there, and socially, they all suck. They were all also hand-selected by Cleary's hiring committee. Just sayin.

Yeah, this is probably a dumb way of assessing the weirdness of a given firm.

so what would be your recommended way?

edcrane wrote:weil has a sizable contingent of deferred associates out there. Cleary is a much better pick from this perspective. In many practice areas, Cleary is also better regarded. IMO, unless you really love bankruptcy or really hated the people at Cleary, this is a no-brainer.

Weil's deferred associates would be my biggest concern. But beyond that, why does TLS trash Weil so much, as if it's good for bankruptcy and nothing else? According to Chambers, it has a lot of strong departments...

Anonymous User wrote:

vamedic03 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Have SA offer at both places. Can't make up my mind. Any help?

Which office? and don't pay attention to the 'Cleary' is weird because some anonymous poster met a couple weird people who work there. I swear that people are giving awful advice nowadays.

I'm the one who made that remark, which I admit seems a bit flippant. But I wasn't trying to be flippant. I know about 5 first years there, and socially, they all suck. They were all also hand-selected by Cleary's hiring committee. Just sayin.

I worked at Cleary for two years as a paralegal before law school and when I see remarks like this meant as "advice" it makes me want to gag.

Such shallow, uninformed opinions should really be kept to yourself. I'm assuming that the 5 first years you know there weren't your friends in law school, since you indirectly implied that you don't "suck" socially compared to them. Thus, you'd probably also admit that you know very little about their personalities, their circle of friends, and have very little information on which to base your judgment of their character. Just because you didn't see them at the same bars or mingling with your cliche of buddies doesn't mean they are socially inept people and wouldn't get along fabulously with the OP.

There are plenty of people at Cleary that are perfectly "normal" and even the ones that are a bit "quirky" are still respectful, brilliant people to be around. Furthermore, in terms of the personalities at the partnership level, Cleary is not filled with power-tripping, slave driving partners that give you work purely for the sake of making you suffer. I know nothing about Weil's culture but I can happily vouch for Cleary. Pay no attention to the people with nothing substantive to back up their advice.

Anonymous User wrote:

edcrane wrote:
Yeah, this is probably a dumb way of assessing the weirdness of a given firm.

so what would be your recommended way?

Conversations with partners, associates, and past summer associates. I think you'll find that there are plenty of "weird" associates with high grades at every selective firm. What's more important is whether there are cultural characteristics that reinforce weirdness or asocial behavior (e.g., Irell's closed door culture).

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

vamedic03 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Have SA offer at both places. Can't make up my mind. Any help?

Which office? and don't pay attention to the 'Cleary' is weird because some anonymous poster met a couple weird people who work there. I swear that people are giving awful advice nowadays.

I'm the one who made that remark, which I admit seems a bit flippant. But I wasn't trying to be flippant. I know about 5 first years there, and socially, they all suck. They were all also hand-selected by Cleary's hiring committee. Just sayin.

I worked at Cleary for two years as a paralegal before law school and when I see remarks like this meant as "advice" it makes me want to gag.

Such shallow, uninformed opinions should really be kept to yourself. I'm assuming that the 5 first years you know there weren't your friends in law school, since you indirectly implied that you don't "suck" socially compared to them. Thus, you'd probably also admit that you know very little about their personalities, their circle of friends, and have very little information on which to base your judgment of their character. Just because you didn't see them at the same bars or mingling with your cliche of buddies doesn't mean they are socially inept people and wouldn't get along fabulously with the OP.

There are plenty of people at Cleary that are perfectly "normal" and even the ones that are a bit "quirky" are still respectful, brilliant people to be around. Furthermore, in terms of the personalities at the partnership level, Cleary is not filled with power-tripping, slave driving partners that give you work purely for the sake of making you suffer. I know nothing about Weil's culture but I can happily vouch for Cleary. Pay no attention to the people with nothing substantive to back up their advice.

They're weird, dude. w-e-i-r-d.

Anonymous User wrote:I worked at Cleary for two years as a paralegal before law school and when I see remarks like this meant as "advice" it makes me want to gag.

Such shallow, uninformed opinions should really be kept to yourself. I'm assuming that the 5 first years you know there weren't your friends in law school, since you indirectly implied that you don't "suck" socially compared to them. Thus, you'd probably also admit that you know very little about their personalities, their circle of friends, and have very little information on which to base your judgment of their character. Just because you didn't see them at the same bars or mingling with your cliche of buddies doesn't mean they are socially inept people and wouldn't get along fabulously with the OP.

There are plenty of people at Cleary that are perfectly "normal" and even the ones that are a bit "quirky" are still respectful, brilliant people to be around. Furthermore, in terms of the personalities at the partnership level, Cleary is not filled with power-tripping, slave driving partners that give you work purely for the sake of making you suffer. I know nothing about Weil's culture but I can happily vouch for Cleary. Pay no attention to the people with nothing substantive to back up their advice.

When did you finish your paralegal stint? Wondering if we know each other. (I'm the one up above who worked there as non-legal. Finished this summer)

spondee wrote:

edcrane wrote:weil has a sizable contingent of deferred associates out there. Cleary is a much better pick from this perspective. In many practice areas, Cleary is also better regarded. IMO, unless you really love bankruptcy or really hated the people at Cleary, this is a no-brainer.

Weil's deferred associates would be my biggest concern. But beyond that, why does TLS trash Weil so much, as if it's good for bankruptcy and nothing else? According to Chambers, it has a lot of strong departments...

It tends to be weaker than the firms it is compared to here. If there were "Shearman vs. Weil" threads popping up with some frequency, there wouldn't be as much "trashing."

edcrane wrote:

spondee wrote:

edcrane wrote:weil has a sizable contingent of deferred associates out there. Cleary is a much better pick from this perspective. In many practice areas, Cleary is also better regarded. IMO, unless you really love bankruptcy or really hated the people at Cleary, this is a no-brainer.

Weil's deferred associates would be my biggest concern. But beyond that, why does TLS trash Weil so much, as if it's good for bankruptcy and nothing else? According to Chambers, it has a lot of strong departments...

It tends to be weaker than the firms it is compared to here. If there were "Shearman vs. Weil" threads popping up with some frequency, there wouldn't be as much "trashing."

Better in what way, though? I'm asking honestly.

Looking at the NY offices on Chambers, Cleary is strong in employee benefits, Latin American investment, real estate, and tax; while Weil is stronger in antitrust, bankruptcy/restructuring, IP, labor/employment, media/entertainment, and tech/outsourcing. And they appear to be about even in general corporate/m&a, in banking/finance, and in litigation (except for white collar, where Cleary is stronger). Overall, Cleary doesn't appear to be definitively better.

spondee wrote:

edcrane wrote:

spondee wrote:

edcrane wrote:weil has a sizable contingent of deferred associates out there. Cleary is a much better pick from this perspective. In many practice areas, Cleary is also better regarded. IMO, unless you really love bankruptcy or really hated the people at Cleary, this is a no-brainer.

Weil's deferred associates would be my biggest concern. But beyond that, why does TLS trash Weil so much, as if it's good for bankruptcy and nothing else? According to Chambers, it has a lot of strong departments...

It tends to be weaker than the firms it is compared to here. If there were "Shearman vs. Weil" threads popping up with some frequency, there wouldn't be as much "trashing."

Better in what way, though? I'm asking honestly.

Looking at the NY offices on Chambers, Cleary is strong in employee benefits, Latin American investment, real estate, and tax; while Weil is stronger in antitrust, bankruptcy/restructuring, IP, labor/employment, media/entertainment, and tech/outsourcing. And they appear to be about even in general corporate/m&a, in banking/finance, and in litigation (except for white collar, where Cleary is stronger). Overall, Cleary doesn't appear to be definitively better.

Weil is dominant in Bankruptcy, also has a great Private equity group. You didn't mention one of Cleary's strongest practices: Capital markets debt, which is a huuuuuge money maker for any firm. Also, I wouldn't go so far as to say Weil is stronger than Cleary in antitrust. That is one of Cleary's top practice areas.