Top Law Schools

Since we're all in the middle of recruiting season - mostly for big firms - what does everyone think about the big law article that was posted by the wife of a V25 attorney?

http://top-law-schools.com/biglaw-relationships.html

Quite frankly, I'm much too overwhelmed with the concern over whether or not I'll get Biglaw in the first place to worry much about the Biglaw-relationships friction.

All common sense...

It's got me wondering how female partners balance work with being a mom. Idk if it's really possible. In one interview I had, a female partner told me that if anyone says that you can do both well, they're lying. Kinda depressing lol.

This article seems to be written for those completely devoid of common sense.

It can always be worse--you could be stuck in shitlaw making 45k a year (I don't wish that on my worst enemy).

IzziesGal wrote:It's got me wondering how female partners balance work with being a mom. Idk if it's really possible. In one interview I had, a female partner told me that if anyone says that you can do both well, they're lying. Kinda depressing lol.

The same way a male partner does it. Their spouse raise the kids and they rarely see them. If there other spouse is also employee as a biglaw attorney, then a nanny. There is no balance in biglaw. It is biglaw first, then everything else second. If you want to actually spend time with you kids you should not be working in biglaw.

IzziesGal wrote:No. Screw my partner. I am married to my Blackberry!l

More like never screw your partner. Am I right?! Ha!

Bumi wrote:

IzziesGal wrote:No. Screw my partner. I am married to my Blackberry!l

More like never screw your partner. Am I right?! Ha!

QFLOL

My wife and I have negotiated a simple solution: she will take a lover and I will marry the office.

i think it also depends on the associates goals, which can explain why some women can work in biglaw and be moms.

if your goal is to work there for 3-4 years and then gtfo, then you can say 'no' to partners, tell them u haven too much on your plate, etc. yea they wont like it, and u may not be staffed on the most high profile deals, but they won't fire u for it (not immediatley). most moms fall in this group which is why there are so few women who make partner.

but if your goal is to make partner, or you are the type of person that can't say no, then yea your life will be hell and biglaw will completely consume it. saying yes to every partner every time can easily become overkill.

The same way a male partner does it. Their spouse raise the kids and they rarely see them. If there other spouse is also employee as a biglaw attorney, then a nanny. There is no balance in biglaw. It is biglaw first, then everything else second. If you want to actually spend time with you kids you should not be working in biglaw.

Not all biglaw firms are the same. My dad was a biglaw partner when I was growing up. Although we all knew not to expect him home at dinnertime, he was always there for us when we needed them. He came to the little league games and piano recitals. He worked very hard, but it was always clear that the family came before work. I have a great relationship with him to this day and he is very happily married to my mom.

nealric wrote:

The same way a male partner does it. Their spouse raise the kids and they rarely see them. If there other spouse is also employee as a biglaw attorney, then a nanny. There is no balance in biglaw. It is biglaw first, then everything else second. If you want to actually spend time with you kids you should not be working in biglaw.

Not all biglaw firms are the same. My dad was a biglaw partner when I was growing up. Although we all knew not to expect him home at dinnertime, he was always there for us when we needed them. He came to the little league games and piano recitals. He worked very hard, but it was always clear that the family came before work. I have a great relationship with him to this day and he is very happily married to my mom.

This is definitely reassuring. My goal in life used to be making partner at a big corporate firm, but now my husband and I are in the middle of planning our family, and my priorities seem to be shifting. I'm just hoping to find some way of making both aspects of my life as happy and healthy as possible. It just seems like something's going to slip.

Anonymous User wrote:This article seems to be written for those completely devoid of common sense.

Please keep criticism constructive.

My take: I enjoyed the perspective in this article, though I am far from being in this situation.

Anonymous User wrote:This article seems to be written for those completely devoid of common sense.

And for virtually every straight-from-undergrad law student who has never worked 40 hours a week, let alone 60-70, for any significant period of time. Don't underestimate the number of people who really have no idea what a few years of biglaw entails, despite what they may have read on law school forums.

AngryAvocado wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:This article seems to be written for those completely devoid of common sense.

And for virtually every straight-from-undergrad law student who has never worked 40 hours a week, let alone 60-70, for any significant period of time. Don't underestimate the number of people who really have no idea what a few years of biglaw entails, despite what they may have read on law school forums.

I disagree with these comments entirely. I worked for years in big law in the admin side before law school, and certainly worked more than 50 or 60 hours per week, so I am neither devoid of common sense nor clueless about big law. This article still effected me b/c I've never thought about it before from a spouse's perspective - and I suspect that this article will be valuable to others for the same reason.

I understand what big law entails, but I don't think my husband does. And this article showed me that probably 99% of spouses say they understand, but really don't. I think there were some good tips here for making sure one's partner is in the loop - especially things we take for granted as just being true. For example, of course I know that I might have to work late - but "late" for me might be 2am, while "late" for my husband might be 9 or 10pm. It helps to realize that I need to be more specific and give him details and not just assume that he knows what late means. I think the article gave some solid advice for how to make sure your partner doesn't feel completely left out of the 3-way rlsp we will have between us, them, and our firms.

I didn't mean to suggest that this article was written for only those groups, but I can see how my comment came off that way. I spent a little time after UG working full-time and I still found the article interesting and illuminating, though I suppose not entirely shocking. The main thing I was trying to get across in my post was that I disagreed that the article was only for those lacking common sense, and that I thought it would be especially helpful for straight-from-undergrad types who really have no idea what sort of an impact a 60+ hour workweek, an unpredictable schedule, and perpetual stress can have on one's personal life. I don't pretend to know myself, but I sure as hell have a better idea of what to expect after working than I did fresh out of undergrad.

And yes, I second what you said about spouses and SOs. I've been telling my SO for a while now how tough biglaw can be on a relationship, but I don't think she really had any idea until she read this article--and she's been working a 50+ hour a week job since we graduated.

AngryAvocado wrote:I didn't mean to suggest that this article was written for only those groups, but I can see how my comment came off that way. I spent a little time after UG working full-time and I still found the article interesting and illuminating, though I suppose not entirely shocking. The main thing I was trying to get across in my post was that I disagreed that the article was only for those lacking common sense, and that I thought it would be especially helpful for straight-from-undergrad types who really have no idea what sort of an impact a 60+ hour workweek, an unpredictable schedule, and perpetual stress can have on one's personal life. I don't pretend to know myself, but I sure as hell have a better idea of what to expect after working than I did fresh out of undergrad.

And yes, I second what you said about spouses and SOs. I've been telling my SO for a while now how tough biglaw can be on a relationship, but I don't think she really had any idea until she read this article--and she's been working a 50+ hour a week job since we graduated.

Ahhh - understood.

I really wish firms did a better job at bringing spouses together and having events or social functions for them. Not sure this would be possible, but if firms could do this, I imagine it would be a major improvement.

IzziesGal wrote:

nealric wrote:

The same way a male partner does it. Their spouse raise the kids and they rarely see them. If there other spouse is also employee as a biglaw attorney, then a nanny. There is no balance in biglaw. It is biglaw first, then everything else second. If you want to actually spend time with you kids you should not be working in biglaw.

Not all biglaw firms are the same. My dad was a biglaw partner when I was growing up. Although we all knew not to expect him home at dinnertime, he was always there for us when we needed them. He came to the little league games and piano recitals. He worked very hard, but it was always clear that the family came before work. I have a great relationship with him to this day and he is very happily married to my mom.

This is definitely reassuring. My goal in life used to be making partner at a big corporate firm, but now my husband and I are in the middle of planning our family, and my priorities seem to be shifting. I'm just hoping to find some way of making both aspects of my life as happy and healthy as possible. It just seems like something's going to slip.

I volunteer to take your kid on vacation to whatever random country I'm in. Then you get a break and your kid will appreciate you more.

worldtraveler wrote:
I volunteer to take your kid on vacation to whatever random country I'm in. Then you get a break and your kid will appreciate you more.

Haha - I love it. But you have to take the dog, too. It's a package deal. Or at least it will be once there is an actually child to discuss.

$160K + bonus gets you tons of chicks, but then working biglaw kills your relationships and dooms you to be cheated on. Pretty much end of story IMO.

LOL at calling the article 'common sense.' I'd be shocked if your average person was capable of actually following the advice and reacting with that much wisdom to relationship issues author references.

amyLAchemist wrote:I guess this really is only applicable to people whose partner also doesn't have a very busy job as well...

Yeah. I wonder if it may actually make it easier if both people work 60-70 hours. You'd hardly see each other, but at least one of you isn't bored to tears at home trying to build their life around the other person's schedule.

That's what I'm going to keep telling myself, at least...