Top Law Schools

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Worse yet, our parents could be FOB...

OP outed; the anonymous feature is not for blogging about the world and what you think of it.

So why bother going to law school/why don't you drop out? The only way you're making more than you made before is if you get biglaw, which involves tremendous workloads and a poor quality of life.

In other words, if you actually believed what you wrote, why did you (or anyone else who subscribes to those views) go to law school? It just makes no sense. You could have plenty of money and a solid pension as a cop/teacher/etc doing a job that is IMO far more interesting and rewarding than litigation.

FWIW I now have come to realize I went to LS for the wrong reasons, didn't do enough homework eg working as a paralegal or in a law firm to realize how dreadful legal work is, and would also be more than happy to live in NYC on 40k doing something I like. Just waiting to graduate so I can move on.

Thank god my loans are minimal...

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SteelReserve wrote:So why bother going to law school/why don't you drop out? The only way you're making more than you made before is if you get biglaw, which involves tremendous workloads and a poor quality of life.

In other words, if you actually believed what you wrote, why did you (or anyone else who subscribes to those views) go to law school? It just makes no sense. You could have plenty of money and a solid pension as a cop/teacher/etc doing a job that is IMO far more interesting and rewarding than litigation.

FWIW I now have come to realize I went to LS for the wrong reasons, didn't do enough homework eg working as a paralegal or in a law firm to realize how dreadful legal work is, and would also be more than happy to live in NYC on 40k doing something I like. Just waiting to graduate so I can move on.

Thank god my loans are minimal...

I thought you were happy about the idea of going into Personal Injury work?

Were you straight from UG? If not, just ignore the following rant:

The stuff that you state above that suck about the legal field in general basically apply to every kind of job out there. I really don't know anyone that likes their jobs, including many teachers. Of those that do love their jobs, however, many are lawyers. I don't know why you would think being a teacher or something would be more interested than litigation. I worked in a lot of places and done a lot of research, and I can't really think of another realistic career that is more interesting than working in litigation as an attorney.

different people are interested in different things at different levels

hth

Burger in a can wrote:

SteelReserve wrote:So why bother going to law school/why don't you drop out? The only way you're making more than you made before is if you get biglaw, which involves tremendous workloads and a poor quality of life.

In other words, if you actually believed what you wrote, why did you (or anyone else who subscribes to those views) go to law school? It just makes no sense. You could have plenty of money and a solid pension as a cop/teacher/etc doing a job that is IMO far more interesting and rewarding than litigation.

FWIW I now have come to realize I went to LS for the wrong reasons, didn't do enough homework eg working as a paralegal or in a law firm to realize how dreadful legal work is, and would also be more than happy to live in NYC on 40k doing something I like. Just waiting to graduate so I can move on.

Thank god my loans are minimal...

Sounds like you didn't want to actually be a lawyer- just earn what you thought was a lawyer's salary. That obviously was the wrong reason to go to law school, but it doesn't mean that nobody else should go. Some people actually want to be lawyers, even at $35k/year and with 30+ years of debt.

Sick of corporate BS.
Don't care for the shitstorm in healthcare with the red tape.
What's left? Law and Underwater Basket Weaving.

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ResolutePear wrote: Sick of corporate BS.
Don't care for the shitstorm in healthcare with the red tape.
What's left? Law and Underwater Basket Weaving.

Isn't the field of law mostly full of these two things?

underdawg wrote:different people are interested in different things at different levels

hth

+1. Some of of us would not be comfortable making 40/70/100k when we are of a certain age, and some would.

Burger in a can wrote:

ResolutePear wrote: Sick of corporate BS.
Don't care for the shitstorm in healthcare with the red tape.
What's left? Law and Underwater Basket Weaving.

Isn't the field of law mostly full of these two things?

DONT RUIN IT FOR ME!

I want to discover the irony at the expense of my 150k+

Burger in a can wrote:

ResolutePear wrote: Sick of corporate BS.
Don't care for the shitstorm in healthcare with the red tape.
What's left? Law and Underwater Basket Weaving.

Isn't the field of law mostly full of these two things?

lol no. Lawyers don't have time for corporate BS, only time for billing. There's a whole lot less bureaucratic nightmare going on at your run of the mill corporate firm than your run of the mill corporation.

disco_barred wrote:

Burger in a can wrote:

ResolutePear wrote: Sick of corporate BS.
Don't care for the shitstorm in healthcare with the red tape.
What's left? Law and Underwater Basket Weaving.

Isn't the field of law mostly full of these two things?

lol no. Lawyers don't have time for corporate BS, only time for billing. There's a whole lot less bureaucratic nightmare going on at your run of the mill corporate firm than your run of the mill corporation.

Yeah, but a lot of the work you'll be billing will involve either sorting out or cleaning up corporate BS.

vanwinkle wrote:

disco_barred wrote:

Burger in a can wrote:

ResolutePear wrote: Sick of corporate BS.
Don't care for the shitstorm in healthcare with the red tape.
What's left? Law and Underwater Basket Weaving.

Isn't the field of law mostly full of these two things?

lol no. Lawyers don't have time for corporate BS, only time for billing. There's a whole lot less bureaucratic nightmare going on at your run of the mill corporate firm than your run of the mill corporation.

Yeah, but a lot of the work you'll be billing will involve either sorting out or cleaning up corporate BS.

Thankfully that's the upside. You get to bill and fix it, versus just having to deal with it and maybe cross your arms and look at the ceiling if you're high-up enough on the corporate ladder.

I thought you were happy about the idea of going into Personal Injury work?

Were you straight from UG? If not, just ignore the following rant:

The stuff that you state above that suck about the legal field in general basically apply to every kind of job out there. I really don't know anyone that likes their jobs, including many teachers. Of those that do love their jobs, however, many are lawyers. I don't know why you would think being a teacher or something would be more interested than litigation. I worked in a lot of places and done a lot of research, and I can't really think of another realistic career that is more interesting than working in litigation as an attorney.

I still think of all civil law, personal injury would be the most interesting and meaningful, but in the end it's plain old litigation like any other litigation, which means:

Little to no court time, and when it happens, it's arguing motions which as everyone knows are decided on the papers not through oral argument and;

Pure desk job. A normal day at work for me involves 8 full hours staring at LexisNexis and drafting briefs. The only time I actually feel alive the entire day is when I'm chatting with the paralegals or the lawyers. The piles of paperwork on my desk are comically small compared to the forest of dead trees that grow on the actual attorneys' desks. The bottom line is litigators don't go to court, they spend little time interacting with people, and spend the vast majority of their time furiously attempting to clear motions off their desk.

I like you A'nold and respect your posts, so I ask you what it is you do at the PI firm where you work and what makes you interested in litigation? What do you like about the job?

And yes, I went straight from UG which was in retrospect dumb, and yes, seeing as I loathe the idea of my life passing me by at my computer screen every day law was a bad fit.

I am gunning for crim law clerkships and applying for various fed govt jobs, which of course will not pan out for a top 10% Law Review T50-100 guy. I am also taking various police exams as well, though most PDs suffer from the same budget/hiring freezes and employment backlogs that DAs/Public Defenders/AGs offices face.

PM me if you want to chat otherwise.

Sounds like you didn't want to actually be a lawyer- just earn what you thought was a lawyer's salary. That obviously was the wrong reason to go to law school, but it doesn't mean that nobody else should go. Some people actually want to be lawyers, even at $35k/year and with 30+ years of debt.

That is fair and you are absolutely right. There are doubtless people that are great fits for law, even if it means the low salaries that dominate the market these days.

And yes I did hope to earn a decent salary, something along the lines of 70-80k that my school listed as the median. And yes I thought that being top 10% and LR with a variety of legal experience throughout school would mean I would actually have some bites in employment asides from clerkships.

But the rewarding government jobs start at 30-40k in most states, and the more important part is that in many states those jobs don't even have open positions for anyone. I agree that if you have passion for the law it is worth it, but for me, I find no enjoyment in sitting at the computer screen pushing paper and contemplating whether R. 52-973C(d) can apply if the defense filed a motion seven days ago and not 15 days ....

So I ask, what is it that makes you certain you will enjoy being a lawyer at a low salary?

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SteelReserve wrote:

I thought you were happy about the idea of going into Personal Injury work?

Were you straight from UG? If not, just ignore the following rant:

The stuff that you state above that suck about the legal field in general basically apply to every kind of job out there. I really don't know anyone that likes their jobs, including many teachers. Of those that do love their jobs, however, many are lawyers. I don't know why you would think being a teacher or something would be more interested than litigation. I worked in a lot of places and done a lot of research, and I can't really think of another realistic career that is more interesting than working in litigation as an attorney.

I still think of all civil law, personal injury would be the most interesting and meaningful, but in the end it's plain old litigation like any other litigation, which means:

Little to no court time, and when it happens, it's arguing motions which as everyone knows are decided on the papers not through oral argument and;

Pure desk job. A busy day at work for me involves 8 full hours staring at LexisNexis and drafting briefs. The piles of paperwork on my desk are comically small compared to the forest of dead trees that grow on the actual attorneys' desks. The bottom line is litigators don't go to court, they spend little time interacting with people, and spend the vast majority of their time furiously attempting to clear motions off their desk.

I like you A'nold and respect your posts, so I ask you what it is you do at the PI firm where you work and what makes you interested in litigation? What do you like about the job?

And yes, I went straight from UG which was in retrospect dumb, and yes, seeing as I loathe the idea of my life passing me by at my computer screen every day law was a bad fit.

I am gunning for crim law clerkships and applying for various fed govt jobs, which of course will not pan out for a top 10% Law Review T50-100 guy. I am also taking various police exams as well, though most PDs suffer from the same budget/hiring freezes and employment backlogs that DAs/Public Defenders/AGs offices face.

PM me if you want to chat otherwise.

Those are good ideas. I think ADA or PD in a high crime/high population area might be a great fit for you, as you get to put your degree to use as well as spend less time at a desk.

You are correct, most of the attorneys I work with spend a crap ton of time researching and writing briefs. Actually, the biggest time sink appears to be taking depositions. The cool thing about depositions though is that you get to travel often. Some of the associates I worked with over the summer were only at the office about 50-70% of the time. They were always arguing motions or something else in court or away taking depositions. The cool thing that is often overlooked about doing research and briefs is that the time goes by so quickly that it seems that there is absolutely not enough time in the day to get it all done. It's nice to think it's 9:00 a.m. and see that it's really 11:15. This never happened to me at my other jobs. Reading and writing makes the time fly, as evidenced by how quickly law school goes for us.

PI is great. I love being able to advocate for those who were wronged and also make great money in the process. The cases are extremely interesting. The characters are one of a kind. You can learn so much by watching the PI genius partners just nail the crap out of the cases they are working on. You can help set new precedent in your state. I helped an attorney that argued in front of the state supreme court about tort precedent we were trying to get overturned. He was a public speaking genius and made the other side look foolish. It is awesome knowing that that could be me someday.

You also have autonomy with your time, as long as you do your work well. I've never had any autonomy with my time in any of my previous jobs, such as when I was an entry-level accountant. The reason I asked if you went directly from UG is that many people that haven't worked in "corporate America" often talk badly about their experiences at law firms whereas those with work experience seem to like their work, in general from what I've seen. It's a shock to any UG student to see how much time actually goes into working an adult kind of job and how much it sucks to come in day in and day out doing something completely mind numbing. Law, well, PI work at least, is anything but mind numbing.

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Burger in a can wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
Teachers get 3 months vacation a year. teacher >>>>>>>> lawyer

Sigh. This site is so frustrating sometimes.

A teacher has a much higher QOL than a lawyer.