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For those of you going through OCI right now, or who have completed it:

How is it going? Is it as bad as last year? Is it about what you expected? For those at t14's: How many callbacks are people getting? Are people below median doomed?

I don't know if it's as bad as last year, but there have been quite a few callbacks that I know about. Let's see if they materialize into offers. My feeling is that this year is better than last. I'm not sure how much better, but my gut says 10-20% better.

Every firm I have spoken to, heard speak, or interviewed with has said hiring is steady or up from last year. A few will have dramatic increases. This outlook is from a fairly wide spectrum of V10 and V25 firms for perspective, I'm not sure if the same "as good or better" outlook extends across the board. Interviews numbers and spirits generally are up at my school. There aren't major holes in terms of what employers show up the way there was last year.

I got to a T14, and last year top quarter had some people get hammered and others do great, largely based on experience and background. This year top third-top quarter all seem to have plenty of interviews. Callbacks are concentrated in NYC firms, top of the class grades, and those interviewing in bizarre markets that happen to be moving quickly.

Anonymous User wrote:Every firm I have spoken to, heard speak, or interviewed with has said hiring is steady or up from last year. A few will have dramatic increases. This outlook is from a fairly wide spectrum of V10 and V25 firms for perspective, I'm not sure if the same "as good or better" outlook extends across the board. Interviews numbers and spirits generally are up at my school. There aren't major holes in terms of what employers show up the way there was last year.

I got to a T14, and last year top quarter had some people get hammered and others do great, largely based on experience and background. This year top third-top quarter all seem to have plenty of interviews. Callbacks are concentrated in NYC firms, top of the class grades, and those interviewing in bizarre markets that happen to be moving quickly.

At my T14, most of the people I know have 3-8 callbacks. Their grades range from top 10% to just above median.

Spoke to some people in the know about OCI at a T25 and they said that the top 1/3 of the class seems to be doing surprisingly well. However, it is still very difficult for those who fall below that mark.

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know if it's as bad as last year, but there have been quite a few callbacks that I know about. Let's see if they materialize into offers. My feeling is that this year is better than last. I'm not sure how much better, but my gut says 10-20% better.

The number of CBs didn't decrease nearly as much as the number of offers during 2009 (source: UVA CSO). I'm skeptical about there being any significant improvement in the number of OFFERS given the eternally tepid economy we're in right now. I think ppl will be surprised by a 1/3 (or lower) CB-to-offer ratio.

radek wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know if it's as bad as last year, but there have been quite a few callbacks that I know about. Let's see if they materialize into offers. My feeling is that this year is better than last. I'm not sure how much better, but my gut says 10-20% better.

The number of CBs didn't decrease nearly as much as the number of offers during 2009 (source: UVA CSO). I'm skeptical about there being any significant improvement in the number of OFFERS given the eternally tepid economy we're in right now. I think ppl will be surprised by a 1/3 (or lower) CB-to-offer ratio.

I certainly would be surprised by a 1/3 (or lower) CB-to-offer ratio.

Anonymous User wrote:

radek wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know if it's as bad as last year, but there have been quite a few callbacks that I know about. Let's see if they materialize into offers. My feeling is that this year is better than last. I'm not sure how much better, but my gut says 10-20% better.

The number of CBs didn't decrease nearly as much as the number of offers during 2009 (source: UVA CSO). I'm skeptical about there being any significant improvement in the number of OFFERS given the eternally tepid economy we're in right now. I think ppl will be surprised by a 1/3 (or lower) CB-to-offer ratio.

I certainly would be surprised by a 1/3 (or lower) CB-to-offer ratio.

In an era where most firms are cutting costs anywhere (except for firms splurging on large-scale hospitality suites *cough*Brinks Hofer*cough* and then firing associates in that city the next day), I can't see flying back dozens of people and then not offering them. Money's tight.

I think callback to offer ratio will be up....

Money is tight for firms ITE = they will be hiring less people and spending less on recruiting

callbacks cost a lot of money: flight + hotel + whatever else you can expense

so it would follow that to spend less money on recruiting firms would increase the callback to offer ratio.

then again what i just typed is pure speculation and optimism as oci begins next week

Anonymous User wrote:

radek wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know if it's as bad as last year, but there have been quite a few callbacks that I know about. Let's see if they materialize into offers. My feeling is that this year is better than last. I'm not sure how much better, but my gut says 10-20% better.

The number of CBs didn't decrease nearly as much as the number of offers during 2009 (source: UVA CSO). I'm skeptical about there being any significant improvement in the number of OFFERS given the eternally tepid economy we're in right now. I think ppl will be surprised by a 1/3 (or lower) CB-to-offer ratio.

I certainly would be surprised by a 1/3 (or lower) CB-to-offer ratio.

Ahaha, as would I.

The callback-to-offer ratio is too hard to predict. Sure, it costs a lot of money to fly in a candidate, but given the lower amount of work that most firms are seeing, the firm's lawyers will have more time to interview candidates.

Anonymous User wrote:The callback-to-offer ratio is too hard to predict. Sure, it costs a lot of money to fly in a candidate, but given the lower amount of work that most firms are seeing, the firm's lawyers will have more time to interview candidates.

If business is so bad across the board, then why did some of the deferred recent grads have start dates moved up?

Does anybody have CB/offer ratios from last year?

.

rayiner wrote:Does anybody have CB/offer ratios from last year?

I have CLS's...

as one good sign, i've gone on two callbacks so far already and every lawyer at both places is absolutely slammed.

anyone want to speculate on what it means when a firm has started calling folks back, but it seems to be only for a given interviewer. i.e. everyone who has heard had the same interviewer, and people who had the other/another interviewer simply haven't heard....for those in the latter group, do you think it's as if the firm hadn't made calls at all (i.e., cling fast to hope), or is it still a bad sign? do you think they review the candidates interviewer by interviewer, or just throw 'em in a pile and then it sorts out how it sorts out....

blerg. i'm probably just getting too caught up, but there are like 5 firms that have started calling folks from my school back, but it seems from all i can gather that everyone who has heard had a different interviewer than i did, and no one that has heard has had mine. it's a whole new shade of hell to this limbo.

bwv812 wrote:

JPU wrote:I think callback to offer ratio will be up....

Money is tight for firms ITE = they will be hiring less people and spending less on recruiting

callbacks cost a lot of money: flight + hotel + whatever else you can expense

so it would follow that to spend less money on recruiting firms would increase the callback to offer ratio.

then again what i just typed is pure speculation and optimism as oci begins next week

The cost of flying people in to conduct interviews is negligible compared to the cost of the interviewers' time and the cost of hiring someone who isn't a great fit and then paying them 30k for a summer and 160-190k for a few years. Last year, when the legal market was even tighter, many firms did more extensive callbacks (and it looks like Schulte may be doing so again this year)... but last year there were lots of not-so-busy attorneys who didn't have better things to do than interview people.

This. The cost of flights and a night at a hotel is negligible in context.

As to firms not being busy... there is certainly no consensus on that point. A lot of firms are VERY busy right now (and have been for most of the past year).

let/them/eat/cake wrote:anyone want to speculate on what it means when a firm has started calling folks back, but it seems to be only for a given interviewer. i.e. everyone who has heard had the same interviewer, and people who had the other/another interviewer simply haven't heard....for those in the latter group, do you think it's as if the firm hadn't made calls at all (i.e., cling fast to hope), or is it still a bad sign? do you think they review the candidates interviewer by interviewer, or just throw 'em in a pile and then it sorts out how it sorts out....

blerg. i'm probably just getting too caught up, but there are like 5 firms that have started calling folks from my school back, but it seems from all i can gather that everyone who has heard had a different interviewer than i did, and no one that has heard has had mine. it's a whole new shade of hell to this limbo.

Could simply be that your interviewer turned in the reviews later. e.g. business trip, got caught up with something else etc.

Though it is certainly possible that there aren't any callbacks from your interviewer.

rando wrote:

let/them/eat/cake wrote:anyone want to speculate on what it means when a firm has started calling folks back, but it seems to be only for a given interviewer. i.e. everyone who has heard had the same interviewer, and people who had the other/another interviewer simply haven't heard....for those in the latter group, do you think it's as if the firm hadn't made calls at all (i.e., cling fast to hope), or is it still a bad sign? do you think they review the candidates interviewer by interviewer, or just throw 'em in a pile and then it sorts out how it sorts out....

blerg. i'm probably just getting too caught up, but there are like 5 firms that have started calling folks from my school back, but it seems from all i can gather that everyone who has heard had a different interviewer than i did, and no one that has heard has had mine. it's a whole new shade of hell to this limbo.

Could simply be that your interviewer turned in the reviews later. e.g. business trip, got caught up with something else etc.

Though it is certainly possible that there aren't any callbacks from your interviewer.

operating under the assumptions that (a) most people bid appropriately (or at least under the assumption that the accuracy or inaccuracy of people's bidlists w/r/t to which firms they targeted is randomly distributed amongst a firm's interviewers), and (b) that candidates with personality/people skills are randomly distributed amongst the interviewers for a given firm, it would seem that would be a pretty unlikely scenario.

let/them/eat/cake wrote:

rando wrote:

let/them/eat/cake wrote:anyone want to speculate on what it means when a firm has started calling folks back, but it seems to be only for a given interviewer. i.e. everyone who has heard had the same interviewer, and people who had the other/another interviewer simply haven't heard....for those in the latter group, do you think it's as if the firm hadn't made calls at all (i.e., cling fast to hope), or is it still a bad sign? do you think they review the candidates interviewer by interviewer, or just throw 'em in a pile and then it sorts out how it sorts out....

blerg. i'm probably just getting too caught up, but there are like 5 firms that have started calling folks from my school back, but it seems from all i can gather that everyone who has heard had a different interviewer than i did, and no one that has heard has had mine. it's a whole new shade of hell to this limbo.

Could simply be that your interviewer turned in the reviews later. e.g. business trip, got caught up with something else etc.

Though it is certainly possible that there aren't any callbacks from your interviewer.

operating under the assumptions that (a) most people bid appropriately (or at least under the assumption that the accuracy or inaccuracy of people's bidlists w/r/t to which firms they targeted is randomly distributed amongst a firm's interviewers), and (b) that candidates with personality/people skills are randomly distributed amongst the interviewers for a given firm, it would seem that would be a pretty unlikely scenario.

ehh. not really. don't forget that interviewer 1 writes many reviews that leads to callbacks and interviewer 2 does the same. Interviewer 1 may be brotastic and interviewer 2 may be a hardass with a different alma mater. Will this lead to several callbacks from 1 and none from another, not often. But does it happen? I know of at least two firms from our OCI last year where it did.

There were definitely fewer callback offers last year.

Regarding callback/offer ratio, BWV is correct.

rando wrote:

let/them/eat/cake wrote:

rando wrote:

let/them/eat/cake wrote:anyone want to speculate on what it means when a firm has started calling folks back, but it seems to be only for a given interviewer. i.e. everyone who has heard had the same interviewer, and people who had the other/another interviewer simply haven't heard....for those in the latter group, do you think it's as if the firm hadn't made calls at all (i.e., cling fast to hope), or is it still a bad sign? do you think they review the candidates interviewer by interviewer, or just throw 'em in a pile and then it sorts out how it sorts out....

blerg. i'm probably just getting too caught up, but there are like 5 firms that have started calling folks from my school back, but it seems from all i can gather that everyone who has heard had a different interviewer than i did, and no one that has heard has had mine. it's a whole new shade of hell to this limbo.

Could simply be that your interviewer turned in the reviews later. e.g. business trip, got caught up with something else etc.

Though it is certainly possible that there aren't any callbacks from your interviewer.

operating under the assumptions that (a) most people bid appropriately (or at least under the assumption that the accuracy or inaccuracy of people's bidlists w/r/t to which firms they targeted is randomly distributed amongst a firm's interviewers), and (b) that candidates with personality/people skills are randomly distributed amongst the interviewers for a given firm, it would seem that would be a pretty unlikely scenario.

ehh. not really. don't forget that interviewer 1 writes many reviews that leads to callbacks and interviewer 2 does the same. Interviewer 1 may be brotastic and interviewer 2 may be a hardass with a different alma mater. Will this lead to several callbacks from 1 and none from another, not often. But does it happen? I know of at least two firms from our OCI last year where it did.

good point in the abstract. I have a hard time believing it w/r/t to the 5 interviewers specifically in question in my situation; I also have a hard time believing it could happened as you say not once, not twice, but 5 times lol

of course i don't want to believe it lol and of course some of this might be attributable to incomplete information on my part. but this kind of talk (heard from x interviewer for y firm! NY to 190!) has and does seem to spread quickly, either by word of mouth or thru a post on this here website. just the nature of this beast i suppose.

"Whatcha got ain't nothin new. This country's hard on people, you can't stop what's coming, it ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

^ definitely not for 5 interviewers. and all for you...

Honestly it's not worth your time worrying about it. Though I think you already knew that.

this is getting retardedly neurotic.