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Hey guys - so I applied to 2 journals at my school and didn't get on to either of them. I am on a moot court team. For interviews, if they ask about me not being on a journal, should I say that I didn't get on, or should I just tell them that I chose not to do journals since moot court has a pretty heavy time commitment?

You should be ok. Moot court will compensate for not being on journals. Now, if you were doing neither then that will be another story. That said, having good grades is the only thing that truly matters in the law firm recruiting process.

I would go with the "I wanted to concentrate on moot court" line. Not strictly speaking false, and sounds a lot better.

What about good grades but no journal?

Person wrote:I would go with the "I wanted to concentrate on moot court" line. Not strictly speaking false, and sounds a lot better.

This. Just steer the answer towards what you are getting from moot court. I would try not to tell them that no journal gave you an offer.

At my school, they made it pretty darn clear that employers would rather have you try and fail than not try. You don't want to look lazy. I didn't make journal, so I'm going to spin the situation like so: Even though I didn't make it on, going through the write on process was a positive experience because it forced me to really learn the Bluebook and gave me some experience editing legal citations, etc. It doesn't have to be super negative, and if the employer feels like you're not quite telling the truth, that might really tick them off.

Just my opinion.

Anonymous User wrote:At my school, they made it pretty darn clear that employers would rather have you try and fail than not try. You don't want to look lazy. I didn't make journal, so I'm going to spin the situation like so: Even though I didn't make it on, going through the write on process was a positive experience because it forced me to really learn the Bluebook and gave me some experience editing legal citations, etc. It doesn't have to be super negative, and if the employer feels like you're not quite telling the truth, that might really tick them off.

Just my opinion.

I like this. People can read into bullshit. At the same time, though, you might also want to mention that you only preferenced two. Something to the effect of "only main and journal xx I felt I really had the passion to contribute what my standard require." This is important, I think, because many firms hiring ITE [seem to be] extremely focused on legal writing.

Blessing in disguise if you are serious about moot court & want to do it right.

drew wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:At my school, they made it pretty darn clear that employers would rather have you try and fail than not try. You don't want to look lazy. I didn't make journal, so I'm going to spin the situation like so: Even though I didn't make it on, going through the write on process was a positive experience because it forced me to really learn the Bluebook and gave me some experience editing legal citations, etc. It doesn't have to be super negative, and if the employer feels like you're not quite telling the truth, that might really tick them off.

Just my opinion.

I like this. People can read into bullshit. At the same time, though, you might also want to mention that you only preferenced two. Something to the effect of "only main and journal xx I felt I really had the passion to contribute what my standard require." This is important, I think, because many firms hiring ITE [seem to be] extremely focused on legal writing.

"Peopl can read into bullshit" What have interviewers received training at langley??? Dude, lie, and lie like you've never lied before

Anonymous User wrote:At my school, they made it pretty darn clear that employers would rather have you try and fail than not try. You don't want to look lazy. I didn't make journal, so I'm going to spin the situation like so: Even though I didn't make it on, going through the write on process was a positive experience because it forced me to really learn the Bluebook and gave me some experience editing legal citations, etc. It doesn't have to be super negative, and if the employer feels like you're not quite telling the truth, that might really tick them off.

Just my opinion.

I agree.

I think it'd be imprudent to try to phrase the answer to the journal question vaguely to make it appear that you didn't try out. You run the risk of looking like you're trying to deceive them, especially if they follow up the original question by asking directly whether you tried out.

I think you have two options: either admit that you tried and didn't make it and spin it positively, or just lie and say you didn't try. Anything in between is unnecessarily risky.

are you aiming for a clerkship?

Person wrote:I would go with the "I wanted to concentrate on moot court" line. Not strictly speaking false, and sounds a lot better.

Actually, strictly speaking this is false, as the OP wanted to be on a journal but but did not get chosen for one rather than simply deciding not to pursue a journal because of focus on moot court.

I do think trying to lead the focus to the positives is the way to go, and I'm sure there is any number of ways to talk about yourself in a positive manner without lying. Even saying "I ended up deciding to concentrate on moot court" is one way of make a 'strictly speaking not false' statement while at the same time avoiding directly admitting you weren't selected for journals (though if you are asked directly, much like with law school admissions, I think the wise course is to be completely honest yet also discerning about what is truly necessary to disclose).

The line I mentioned as a possibility is similar to 'Person''s, but subtleties in language can make the difference between what is 'strictly' true and what is patently misleading. In the sentence suggested by Person there is an implication that the desire to focus on moot court preceded the journal application process (that OP didn't try out for journals) which is false, but by slightly different wording OP can be truthful while still deflecting a sore topic IMO. By saying you "ended up deciding to focus on moot court" you are making a statement consistent with the fact that you decided to focus on moot court after you found out the journals were not an option. You could have decided to ditch the moot court (for other reasons) even after you didn't get the journals, but you are in fact deciding to focus on it. Still perhaps misleading and a cover for more relevant facts, but at least I can see an argument that this statement would be 'strictly speaking not false.'

On the other hand, as one anonymous user and Waterman seemed to suggest, just being straight about everything (not even trying to hide the thing about the journal rejections) may pay off. I could be wrong about this, but I think it's possible some employers really won't care all that much about the fact you're not on a journal anyway. Also, as was mentioned, if the employer gets the sense you are trying to cover something up (or especially mislead them) then that could really be trouble.

No interviewers will ask you why you aren't doing a journal (at least not at large firms that come to OCI). They will just assume that you didn't make it, and won't hire you if that's something they want (and many/most do). You'll be surprised -- interviewers tend to be extremely conscientious of what they ask you and won't ask you anything that might put you on the spot like that. Most will just ask very broad and idiotic questions, such as "tell me about yourself," followed by "what questions do you have for me."

just go for another journal--i thought secondary journals are guaranteed for any student that wants on

thuggishruggishbone wrote:just go for another journal--i thought secondary journals are guaranteed for any student that wants on

rofl. This is true at maybe one or two schools in the country. Almost all schools have competitions to get onto any secondary journal.

disco_barred wrote:

thuggishruggishbone wrote:just go for another journal--i thought secondary journals are guaranteed for any student that wants on

rofl. This is true at maybe one or two schools in the country. Almost all schools have competitions to get onto any secondary journal.

TCR...one school being Yale and other Boalt.

I only know about the t-14, but I believe the rest have write-on competitions for secondary journals. At my MVP, only 50% or so of the students do a journal, including LR. At Northwestern, 70% or so do journals.

on_ne_sait_jamais wrote:

drew wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:At my school, they made it pretty darn clear that employers would rather have you try and fail than not try. You don't want to look lazy. I didn't make journal, so I'm going to spin the situation like so: Even though I didn't make it on, going through the write on process was a positive experience because it forced me to really learn the Bluebook and gave me some experience editing legal citations, etc. It doesn't have to be super negative, and if the employer feels like you're not quite telling the truth, that might really tick them off.

Just my opinion.

I like this. People can read into bullshit. At the same time, though, you might also want to mention that you only preferenced two. Something to the effect of "only main and journal xx I felt I really had the passion to contribute what my standard require." This is important, I think, because many firms hiring ITE [seem to be] extremely focused on legal writing.

"Peopl can read into bullshit" What have interviewers received training at langley??? Dude, lie, and lie like you've never lied before

It is regrettable that you are/will be an officer of the court.

Anonymous User wrote:

disco_barred wrote:

thuggishruggishbone wrote:just go for another journal--i thought secondary journals are guaranteed for any student that wants on

rofl. This is true at maybe one or two schools in the country. Almost all schools have competitions to get onto any secondary journal.

TCR...one school being Yale and other Boalt.

I only know about the t-14, but I believe the rest have write-on competitions for secondary journals. At my MVP, only 50% or so of the students do a journal, including LR. At Northwestern, 70% or so do journals.

at nyu, i don't know a single person who did the writing comp and didn't get any journal at all.

XxSpyKEx wrote:No interviewers will ask you why you aren't doing a journal (at least not at large firms that come to OCI). They will just assume that you didn't make it, and won't hire you if that's something they want (and many/most do). You'll be surprised -- interviewers tend to be extremely conscientious of what they ask you and won't ask you anything that might put you on the spot like that. Most will just ask very broad and idiotic questions, such as "tell me about yourself," followed by "what questions do you have for me."

I had genius interviewers whose questions were along the lines of "tell me your three favorite books/movies". Wtf? I had prepared for a long time to talk about this particular place of employment and how my skill would benefit them only to be blindsided by the most generic interview questions ever. Be prepared for anything.

underdawg wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

disco_barred wrote:

thuggishruggishbone wrote:just go for another journal--i thought secondary journals are guaranteed for any student that wants on

rofl. This is true at maybe one or two schools in the country. Almost all schools have competitions to get onto any secondary journal.

TCR...one school being Yale and other Boalt.

I only know about the t-14, but I believe the rest have write-on competitions for secondary journals. At my MVP, only 50% or so of the students do a journal, including LR. At Northwestern, 70% or so do journals.

at nyu, i don't know a single person who did the writing comp and didn't get any journal at all.

weird, it definitely depends on the school then. I know at Boalt any 1L can walk onto any secondary journal and there are unlimited spots. At my MVP, you have to write-on for every journal, only rising 2Ls can compete, and each journal has a set number of members.

Virtually everyone who wants one gets a journal at V.

RVP11 wrote:Virtually everyone who wants one gets a journal at V.

What percentage of V students are on a journal? I just assume that everyone wants to be on a journal these days because of ITE.

Not the case at Chi that everyone that wants a journal gets a journal. Odds are typically good, of course, but with over 2/3rds doing the writing comp this year and there only being 2 journals outside LR, it was kinda steep.

This makes me wonder whether OP goes to Chi.

thuggishruggishbone wrote:just go for another journal--i thought secondary journals are guaranteed for any student that wants on

UCLA allows many, many students to be on journals. There are several to choose from. Perhaps you attend such a school.

http://www.law.ucla.edu/home/index.asp?page=1404

But then there are also a lot of schools (like mine) that only have 2-4. So I guess I'm saying that a journal is no guarantee at schools like mine. And people regularly deal with not getting on one.