Top Law Schools

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at my not-quite T14 school, two top 5-10% people got NYC V5 (not Skadden) for this summer. they had their pick of firms (15 callbacks, 5-7 offers even though they pulled out of consideration before hearing back from others). plenty of COA clerkships each year. a handful of SCOTUS clerks over the last 10 years.

that said, not a very wise way to go about deciding

Can't vouch for any other schools, but top students at UF are competitive for COA clerkships and jobs at top firms, pretty much anywhere in the country, but typically NY/DC. I am sure they could also be competitive for things like the DOJ honors program and prestigious public interest organizations, but I don't really know all that much about those prospects as I am more interested in clerking or biglaw.

Anonymous User wrote:that said, not a very wise way to go about deciding

Also, I second this.

Anecdotal: I have a friend who hit top 1% first year at George Mason, transferred to U Michigan, got a summer associateship w/ White & Case, wound up graduating top 10-15% at Michigan & accepting an offer from White & Case.

He was deferred, is now working for Dell for a year @ $65K through White & Case (I'm not entirely sure how that is occuring) & is supposedly starting as a full-time employee after 12 months of it ($160K lockstep etc.). (due to ITE-related $ issues).

I realize that transferring up screws with how applicable this anecdotal is, but I figured at the very least you wouldn't mind reading it.

I also know of a UF transfer who went to Harvard and got a job with Cravath, fwiw.

mistergoft wrote:Can't vouch for any other schools, but top students at UF are competitive for COA clerkships and jobs at top firms, pretty much anywhere in the country, but typically NY/DC. I am sure they could also be competitive for things like the DOJ honors program and prestigious public interest organizations, but I don't really know all that much about those prospects as I am more interested in clerking or biglaw.

This is credited for UF.

mistergoft wrote:I also know of a UF transfer who went to Harvard and got a job with Cravath, fwiw.

Wow, I knew someone transferred to Harvard, but I didn't realize he landed a job there! IIRC, however, he had a solid resume even before law school.

I know a few people in the top 1-2% at UF who got accepted to Columbia as transfer students.

From what I understand the chances of a great job would be very good.

BTW T1 on here refers to 1-50 (not 30 or 40ish). People argue all kinds of things, but the common usage is T1= 1-50; T2=50-100; T3 and T4 are specified by USNews but unranked within each category (all outside top 100). I know the usefulness of the tiers being broken down like this (and the ranking system in general for that matter) is very much in question and is often debated, but if you're asking about top 30 schools you can say 'T30' or top 40 'T40', but when you say T1 the standard accepted usage is that you mean 'T50' from what I have seen.

Again, if you were to go to a lower T1 school (such as 30-50) and were in top 1-2% you would likely have very good prospects in terms of a) a lucrative job upon graduation from that school, or b) the chance to transfer to one of the very best law schools where you would likewise also have strong employment options (even in this economy I believe this generally holds true). I would say this applies to top 10% of the class as well if you're going to a T1 school.

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emorystud2010 wrote:c) part of the idea with this is i was wondering about things like: "im top 1-2% at school x (15-50, but more 21-50 since most ppl seem to think 15-20 get alot of the same options). Where is the cutoff in the vault 100 for school x?"

Do you know how the Vault 100 firms are ranked?

you are just awesome.

can you somehow mindmeld your amazing grades to me, please?!

Erm.

He hasn't started yet.

GatorStudent wrote:

mistergoft wrote:Can't vouch for any other schools, but top students at UF are competitive for COA clerkships and jobs at top firms, pretty much anywhere in the country, but typically NY/DC. I am sure they could also be competitive for things like the DOJ honors program and prestigious public interest organizations, but I don't really know all that much about those prospects as I am more interested in clerking or biglaw.

This is credited for UF.

Not even remotely credited for COA clerkships or top NY/DC firms.

rando wrote: Not even remotely credited for COA clerkships or top NY/DC firms.

Of course, it depends on how we define "competitive." Obviously, against T-14 students (and other schools), UF students will often be a major disadvantage. But that doesn't mean they're automatically discarded. And if those people who transferred (in fact, I know of three people in last year's class that got into Harvard or Columbia as transfers, and I know of one person who got into Duke despite "merely" being in the top 10%) have a shot at biglaw jobs, then I think what we stated is valid. Naturally, just because they transfer into those schools doesn't mean they're landing "top" jobs. I don't know enough about transferring to comment; if you do, please explain. And again, we go back to definitions--that is, what we mean by "top" firms.

Also, it depends if the poster means that UF law graduates are competitive at top firms throughout the country AND competitive at COA clerkships around the country. UF does well wrt COA clerkships in its Circuit. I don't know the stats, but my educated guess is that UF doesn't do well in other circuits. However, I know one person who just graduated and landed a COA clerkship in another circuit, and he was in the top 1% of his class. (To be fair, I heard that student had to use some connections, but that's often life.) I also know one person who landed a COA clerkship as a rising 3L, and that person is nowhere close to the top 1-2% of the class. If the OP was asking about (perhaps) the top 10-15% at UF, then sure, I'd definitely agree with you. But the top 1-2% seems to have a fighting chance.

GatorStudent wrote:

rando wrote: Not even remotely credited for COA clerkships or top NY/DC firms.

Of course, it depends on how we define "competitive." Obviously, against T-14 students (and other schools), UF students will often be a major disadvantage. But that doesn't mean they're automatically discarded. And if those people who transferred (in fact, I know of three people in last year's class that got into Harvard or Columbia as transfers, and I know of one person who got into Duke despite "merely" being in the top 10%) have a shot at biglaw jobs, then I think what we stated is valid. Naturally, just because they transfer into those schools doesn't mean they're landing "top" jobs. I don't know enough about transferring to comment; if you do, please explain. And again, we go back to definitions--that is, what we mean by "top" firms.

Also, it depends if the poster means that UF law graduates are competitive at top firms throughout the country AND competitive at COA clerkships around the country. UF does well wrt COA clerkships in its Circuit. I don't know the stats, but my educated guess is that UF doesn't do well in other circuits. However, I know one person who just graduated and landed a COA clerkship in another circuit, and he was in the top 1% of his class. (To be fair, I heard that student had to use some connections, but that's often life.) I also know one person who landed a COA clerkship as a rising 3L, and that person is nowhere close to the top 1-2% of the class. If the OP was asking about (perhaps) the top 10-15% at UF, then sure, I'd definitely agree with you. But the top 1-2% seems to have a fighting chance.

Competitive in your circuit is not competitive across the country. And according to a brief search through law clerk addict there were only 2 UF COA clerks from this past year. Another brief search from the top NY firms shows no attorneys at WLRK, 1 at cravath, 1 at S&C; top DC firms - 0 at W&C, 0 at Covington. You realize that is not even remotely competitive right? And is in no way representative of ITE. Those are "top" firms.

As far as transfers go. They don't go to UF. They once did, but is not an issue after they transfer.

To be clear. This is in NO way bashing UF. I know a few people who go there. They are very bright and are working market rate jobs in Fla. but not competitive around the country.

rando wrote: Competitive in your circuit is not competitive across the country.

Yeah, as I implied above, I thought the poster meant that UF students were competitive at top law firms throughout the country, but not that they were competitive at COA clerkships in other circuits. Of course, after reading his/her post again, I see that the poster seemed to mean that top 1-2% would be competitive also in other circuits. So we agree there.

rando wrote: And according to a brief search through law clerk addict there were only 2 UF COA clerks from this past year.

That's what I thought. So take 1-2% of a school even the size of UF (which is fairly big as far as law schools go) and multiply it by the number in each class. (Last year there were 400 per class; after my class, it's 300 per class.) So 1% of 400 means that four students were in the top 1%. Only four. And that obviously means that 8 students were in the top 2%.

Assuming that those who landed COA clerkships from UF were in the top 1-2% (which could be a rather big assumption to make), that's 25% of the top 2% at UF. Yes, that's probably low compared to T14 schools, but it's not shabby, especially considering not everyone at the top of the class wants to clerk. And if 25% can actually land a clerkship, then it's not crazy to suggest that quite a few of the others landed at an interview. To me, that's being competitive.

rando wrote: Another brief search from the top NY firms shows no attorneys at WLRK, 1 at cravath, 1 at S&C; top DC firms - 0 at W&C, 0 at Covington. You realize that is not even remotely competitive right? And is in no way representative of ITE. Those are "top" firms.

If we're talking about only those firms as the top firms, then I agree 100% with you. And my previous post is consistent with my agreement with you on this matter.

rando wrote: As far as transfers go. They don't go to UF. They once did, but is not an issue after they transfer.

Based on what the OP asked, it is relevant. The OP asked what are the job opportunities for those who attend a T1 school. While someone should not depend on transferring to land a job, it's something important to consider. Also, it's not hard to imagine that if Columbia and Harvard want those people, they probably have something going for them other than "merely" grades. It at least has theoretical validity, although I concede that I don't have evidence to demonstrate that.

rando wrote: To be clear. This is in NO way bashing UF. I know a few people who go there. They are very bright and are working market rate jobs in Fla. but not competitive around the country.

I didn't assume you were attempting to bash UF; I hope I didn't come off that I felt that way in my previous post. I like UF, but it has its weaknesses.

Fair enough.

BTW. Didn't think you were being defensive about UF. Just people can be and I wanted to throw it out there.

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rando wrote:Fair enough.

BTW. Didn't think you were being defensive about UF. Just people can be and I wanted to throw it out there.

That's fair. It's good we had this discussion, so that others can read it and hopefully put this information/discussion to good use.

Agreed. And in any event, the above points should hold for most schools T20-50 with a slight upward trend towards the T20 and a marked increase inside T20 followed by a huge jump at the T14, 10, 6 etc.

rando wrote:Agreed. And in any event, the above points should hold for most schools T20-50 with a slight upward trend towards the T20 and a marked increase inside T20 followed by a huge jump at the T14, 10, 6 etc.

That's the conventional wisdom on TLS, at the very least, although sometimes it's good to have someone at a school who can talk about specific numbers/anecdotal evidence for a particular school.

Take it easy!

rando wrote:

GatorStudent wrote:

mistergoft wrote:Can't vouch for any other schools, but top students at UF are competitive for COA clerkships and jobs at top firms, pretty much anywhere in the country, but typically NY/DC. I am sure they could also be competitive for things like the DOJ honors program and prestigious public interest organizations, but I don't really know all that much about those prospects as I am more interested in clerking or biglaw.

This is credited for UF.

Not even remotely credited for COA clerkships or top NY/DC firms.

For clarification, I meant COA clerkships in the Circuit (and there are not a ton of them, but a student at the top of the class has a chance) and I am not talking about top firms in the sense of v10 firms but more like v25 firms.

Obviously.

mistergoft wrote:

rando wrote:

GatorStudent wrote:

mistergoft wrote:Can't vouch for any other schools, but top students at UF are competitive for COA clerkships and jobs at top firms, pretty much anywhere in the country, but typically NY/DC. I am sure they could also be competitive for things like the DOJ honors program and prestigious public interest organizations, but I don't really know all that much about those prospects as I am more interested in clerking or biglaw.

This is credited for UF.

Not even remotely credited for COA clerkships or top NY/DC firms.

For clarification, I meant COA clerkships in the Circuit (and there are not a ton of them, but a student at the top of the class has a chance) and I am not talking about top firms in the sense of v10 firms but more like v25 firms.

Obviously.

Yes. Obviously when you wrote "all over he country" you meant florida judges in the eleventh circuit. And by top firms you meant "not quite the top" but close.

Either way, the ambiguity has been flushed out. Thanks.