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So I know how hard everyone says it is to get a firm job in Texas without ties (and I believe them) but there has to be some way right? I do know that for Susman the fact that they are so elite and are looking for such strong credentials that they will let the ties issue go, but what about less selective firms? I'm particularly curious about Dallas. Please assume top 10 school. Anyone know anything about Gibson Dunn Dallas--no one ever mentions them. From what I've seen Bracewell and Giuliani seems to be an example of a less selective Dallas firm.

I know three people from UVA who've gotten SAs (one of them as a 1L, ITE) in Texas with minimal (just UG there) or absolutely zero ties to the state.

Dallas and Houston are not any harder to get without ties than other non-NY/DC markets. Generally the bigger the market, the more easily you can get in without ties. Dallas and Houston are both very big markets and I think that generalization holds true with them.

I don't think Dallas or Houston are either as insular as TLS makes them out to be or as insular as markets like Seattle, Portland, Denver, Austin, San Diego, or any other small-but-highly-desirable legal market.

SuichiKurama wrote:So I know how hard everyone says it is to get a firm job in Texas without ties (and I believe them) but there has to be some way right? I do know that for Susman the fact that they are so elite and are looking for such strong credentials that they will let the ties issue go, but what about less selective firms? I'm particularly curious about Dallas. Please assume top 10 school. Anyone know anything about Gibson Dunn Dallas--no one ever mentions them. From what I've seen Bracewell and Giuliani seems to be an example of a less selective Dallas firm.

I know one who pulled it off as a 1L ITE, but he's from Texas.

Kohinoor wrote:

SuichiKurama wrote:So I know how hard everyone says it is to get a firm job in Texas without ties (and I believe them) but there has to be some way right? I do know that for Susman the fact that they are so elite and are looking for such strong credentials that they will let the ties issue go, but what about less selective firms? I'm particularly curious about Dallas. Please assume top 10 school. Anyone know anything about Gibson Dunn Dallas--no one ever mentions them. From what I've seen Bracewell and Giuliani seems to be an example of a less selective Dallas firm.

I know one who pulled it off as a 1L ITE, but he's from Texas.

So he has substantial ties then...

I know some clerks who didn't have ties.

That's probably different than firms because it's a term gig (i.e., some judges like it if you stick around, but if you don't, it's no skin off their backs).

I know the wisdom on TLS is that ties are important, and I definitely think there's truth to that. Still, I asked an attorney in Texas (a family friend) and he basically said, "Look, we're not that provincial." If you have the credentials, they'll take a look at you.

That said, it certainly doesn't hurt to make an effort to establish some ties (the advice I got was to to find some kind of 1L summer job in TX).

Thanks for the advice. I'm not interested in Austin--which seems to be the hardest TX market to break into without ties (although ironically it's the only one of the TX cities that I have any sort of tie to). Dallas just seems like a pretty decent place to live. So basically if you do well grade wise you have a shot at firms there from a top 10.

SuichiKurama wrote:Thanks for the advice. I'm not interested in Austin--which seems to be the hardest TX market to break into without ties (although ironically it's the only one of the TX cities that I have any sort of tie to). Dallas just seems like a pretty decent place to live. So basically if you do well grade wise you have a shot at firms there from a top 10.

Yeah, but you may want to consider spending your 1L summer in TX.

SuichiKurama wrote:Thanks for the advice. I'm not interested in Austin--which seems to be the hardest TX market to break into without ties (although ironically it's the only one of the TX cities that I have any sort of tie to). Dallas just seems like a pretty decent place to live. So basically if you do well grade wise you have a shot at firms there from a top 10.

BLASPHEMY! Austin >>>> Dallas (unless you need to live close to bars full of Ed Hardy wearing douchetrucks).

ggocat wrote:

SuichiKurama wrote:Thanks for the advice. I'm not interested in Austin--which seems to be the hardest TX market to break into without ties (although ironically it's the only one of the TX cities that I have any sort of tie to). Dallas just seems like a pretty decent place to live. So basically if you do well grade wise you have a shot at firms there from a top 10.

Yeah, but you may want to consider spending your 1L summer in TX.

I mean I would, but I'm confused why you say I should.

SuichiKurama wrote:

ggocat wrote:

SuichiKurama wrote:Thanks for the advice. I'm not interested in Austin--which seems to be the hardest TX market to break into without ties (although ironically it's the only one of the TX cities that I have any sort of tie to). Dallas just seems like a pretty decent place to live. So basically if you do well grade wise you have a shot at firms there from a top 10.

Yeah, but you may want to consider spending your 1L summer in TX.

I mean I would, but I'm confused why you say I should.

So that your resume shows TX connection and you can talk in an interview about "why Texas."

ggocat wrote:So that your resume shows TX connection and you can talk in an interview about "why Texas."

Oh, well if that works the comments about them not being as provincial as people make them out to be must be true. I thought the conventional wisdom was that ties were even more important for 1L firm jobs (hence why I was planning on doing a 1L firm gig with a firm in my "home" market where I'm familiar with some of the partners/associates).

JordynAsh wrote:
BLASPHEMY! Austin >>>> Dallas (unless you need to live close to bars full of Ed Hardy wearing douchetrucks).

The Austin metro area is too small for my tastes; I like how the Dallas metro area is the 4th largest in the country ( it seems more diverse as well). Dallas also seems to have a better selection of firms.

ITE you should plan assuming you won't get a 1L firm job. It's nothing to do with ties and everything to do with firms drastically cutting back spending and figuring out they gain almost nothing by hiring 1Ls for a summer. I went to a T14 and almost nobody I knew got a 1L firm job, anywhere. 1L will likely be unpaid, or a research assistant gig if you need money.

vanwinkle wrote:ITE you should plan assuming you won't get a 1L firm job. It's nothing to do with ties and everything to do with firms drastically cutting back spending and figuring out they gain almost nothing by hiring 1Ls for a summer. I went to a T14 and almost nobody I knew got a 1L firm job, anywhere. 1L will likely be unpaid, or a research assistant gig if you need money.

Luckily the firm I was mentioning hasn't cut back their program (surprisingly they haven't cut it at all) and I know a few partners there. I just need to pull off decent grades--that's going to be the challenge. They also seem to be really fond of UVA (like many firms in the city).

SuichiKurama wrote:I know a few partners there.

then what in god's name is the point of this thread - just talk to them - they know more than us

doyleoil wrote:

SuichiKurama wrote:I know a few partners there.

then what in god's name is the point of this thread - just talk to them - they know more than us

No no not in Texas ( I don't know anyone of any significance in terms of law there) in my home market.

JordynAsh wrote:
BLASPHEMY! Austin >>>> Dallas (unless you need to live close to bars full of Ed Hardy wearing douchetrucks).

The Austin metro area is too small for my tastes; I like how the Dallas metro area is the 4th largest in the country ( it seems more diverse as well). Dallas also seems to have a better selection of firms.[/quote]

Good points, especially about the number of firms.