Page 1 of 10
AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:31 pm
by testmachine45
Here's the link:
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... iates.html
STILL: 3,586 people got big
law summer associate positions. Obviously, the number is even greater as not all firms reported(like Debevoise and Plimpton) which last year hired 100 people.
3,586 is a lot of people. That's basically half the classes of the Top 20 schools put together. Seems reasonable to me.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:39 pm
by Sell Manilla
How can you read about a 44% drop from '09 to '10 and sound positive about the raw total leftover?
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:45 pm
by romothesavior
Ouch.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:46 pm
by holydonkey
professor testmachine45 wrote:Good news, everyone! The legal services industry has decided to outsource your jobs.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:47 pm
by miamiman
romothesavior wrote:Ouch.
we've known this. now they assigned an aggregate % to the bloodbath.
here's to hoping the economy doesn't double-dip.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:47 pm
by romothesavior
miamiman wrote:romothesavior wrote:Ouch.
we've known this. now they assigned an aggregate % to the bloodbath.
here's to hoping the economy doesn't double-dip.
Yeah it's nothing new. Just still sucks to think about.
And don't worry, His Holiness in the White House is working on it.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:48 pm
by KibblesAndVick
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:49 pm
by sumus romani
"Obviously we were in the midst of one of the greatest economic downturns in recent history last year," says Steven Sletten, chair of Gibson, Dunn's firmwide hiring committee, commenting on the decrease. "We had to make adjustments on the margin and thought it was prudent to reduce the size of the summer program somewhat." He says he does not expect the size of next year's program to be dramatically different from this year's. Latham did not return calls for comment.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:50 pm
by sumus romani
KibblesAndVick wrote:
This is so absolutely credited outside Yale.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:51 pm
by Kohinoor
KibblesAndVick wrote:
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:53 pm
by 270910
sumus romani wrote:"Obviously we were in the midst of one of the greatest economic downturns in recent history last year," says Steven Sletten, chair of Gibson, Dunn's firmwide hiring committee, commenting on the decrease. "We had to make adjustments on the margin and thought it was prudent to reduce the size of the summer program somewhat." He says he does not expect the size of next year's program to be dramatically different from this year's. Latham did not return calls for comment.
Gibson was one of the largest though. The Gibsons of the world aren't the firms that we're all hoping to see increases - its more the Cravaths and Morgan Lewises (cut by 80%/100%) that we're hoping to see really pick up hiring.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:55 pm
by miamiman
disco_barred wrote:sumus romani wrote:"Obviously we were in the midst of one of the greatest economic downturns in recent history last year," says Steven Sletten, chair of Gibson, Dunn's firmwide hiring committee, commenting on the decrease. "We had to make adjustments on the margin and thought it was prudent to reduce the size of the summer program somewhat." He says he does not expect the size of next year's program to be dramatically different from this year's. Latham did not return calls for comment.
Gibson was one of the largest though. The Gibsons of the world aren't the firms that we're all hoping to see increases - its more the Cravaths and Morgan Lewises (cut by 80%/100%) that we're hoping to see really pick up hiring.
Is ML even doing a program next year?
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:56 pm
by KibblesAndVick
Kohinoor wrote:images
I guess I just have a loser's mentality =D
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:57 pm
by webbylu87
Can someone who knows more than I do about this elaborate on what this means for those who are looking to work for a smaller firm after graduation? I know that the hiring decrease is correlated to that in big law but considering that most small firms primarily don't recruit through OCI, what affect does the reduction in firms attending OCI have on those looking at small firm work?
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:58 pm
by 09042014
I figured it was about half. Looks like 2012 will be about the same. I hope the rebound occurs by 2013, but we should all assume it won't.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:00 pm
by sumus romani
Wasn't it widely reported that OCI offices at almost all schools claimed that biglaw SA positions were increasing this year (2010 SA hiring) from last year (2009 SA hiring)? These data clearly show otherwise.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:01 pm
by miamiman
Desert Fox wrote:I figured it was about half. Looks like 2012 will be about the same. I hope the rebound occurs by 2013, but we should all assume it won't.
I assumed it was more than 50%. And I'm not holding my breath.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:02 pm
by miamiman
sumus romani wrote:Wasn't it widely reported that OCI offices at almost all schools claimed that biglaw SA positions were increasing this year (2010 SA hiring) from last year (2009 SA hiring)? These data clearly show otherwise.
How does this data show otherwise? You mean the cautious commentary from the Gibson dude / lack of response from Latham?
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:03 pm
by sumus romani
webbylu87 wrote:Can someone who knows more than I do about this elaborate on what this means for those who are looking to work for a smaller firm after graduation? I know that the hiring decrease is correlated to that in big law but considering that most small firms primarily don't recruit through OCI, what affect does the reduction in firms attending OCI have on those looking at small firm work?
Because OCI is run during the summer between 1L and 2L, those who miss out on OCI will be competing against you for a small-firm job during the summer between 2L and 3L, and then later through 3L, and finally after graduation. So this is terrible news all around, even those not looking for biglaw.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:04 pm
by 09042014
miamiman wrote:Desert Fox wrote:I figured it was about half. Looks like 2012 will be about the same. I hope the rebound occurs by 2013, but we should all assume it won't.
I assumed it was more than 50%. And I'm not holding my breath.
Firms need new associates, and the legal market isn't down 44%. There has to be an increase eventually. Though it might be too late for us.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:05 pm
by sumus romani
miamiman wrote:sumus romani wrote:Wasn't it widely reported that OCI offices at almost all schools claimed that biglaw SA positions were increasing this year (2010 SA hiring) from last year (2009 SA hiring)? These data clearly show otherwise.
How does this data show otherwise? You mean the cautious commentary from the Gibson dude / lack of response from Latham?
Perhaps I wasn't clear. But I take it that the preditions from "Gibson dude" are for OCI 2011 SA hiring.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:07 pm
by webbylu87
sumus romani wrote:webbylu87 wrote:Can someone who knows more than I do about this elaborate on what this means for those who are looking to work for a smaller firm after graduation? I know that the hiring decrease is correlated to that in big law but considering that most small firms primarily don't recruit through OCI, what affect does the reduction in firms attending OCI have on those looking at small firm work?
Because OCI is run during the summer between 1L and 2L, those who miss out on OCI will be competing against you for a small-firm job during the summer between 2L and 3L, and then later through 3L, and finally after graduation. So this is terrible news all around, even those not looking for biglaw.
We're all still screwed then. Got it. Thanks.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:07 pm
by miamiman
Desert Fox wrote:miamiman wrote:Desert Fox wrote:I figured it was about half. Looks like 2012 will be about the same. I hope the rebound occurs by 2013, but we should all assume it won't.
I assumed it was more than 50%. And I'm not holding my breath.
Firms need new associates, and the legal market isn't down 44%. There has to be an increase eventually. Though it might be too late for us.
I agree that the volume in legal work isn't down 44% but I suspect firms will be cautious to bring much larger junior associate classes in so long as a) clients continue to refuse to pay, b) firms are able to maintain lean staffing, and c) the economy remains uncertain
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:09 pm
by doyleoil
Desert Fox wrote:I figured it was about half. Looks like 2012 will be about the same. I hope the rebound occurs by 2013, but we should all assume it won't.
Rebound? We all better just hope the (new) status quo holds.
Most of the speculation I've heard shows these changes being permanent, mostly due to a shift in client-firm relations. There isn't enough work to go around, so firms can't turn work down in favor of other (now-nonexistent) clients who will pay for tons of first-years anymore.
For the balance to move back in favor of firms, there will have to be a huge uptick in activity. And there's no indication that the GDP is going to grow at anything like a decent rate for a very long time.
Re: AM LAW: SUMMER ASSOCIATE HIRING DOWN 44 PERCENT OVER 2009
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:10 pm
by on_ne_sait_jamais
Sell Manilla wrote:How can you read about a 44% drop from '09 to '10 and sound positive about the raw total leftover?
Sell Manilla, I knight you the smartest person on TLS... Hilarious how people are so ignorant of how bad the market really is. There's a Yalie rising 3L summering at a midmarket firm in the city I'm in... Do you have any idea how depressing that is. When Yale isn't a ticket into a V50, things are really, really, bad.