Interviewing with same firm, multiple markets Forum

[rayiner]

How bad is it to interview with the same firm in multiple markets? I ended up with interviews at both the Chicago and DC offices of a firm. What do I tell the interviewer?

[peterstein]

How bad is it to interview with the same firm in multiple markets? I ended up with interviews at both the Chicago and DC offices of a firm. What do I tell the interviewer?

Jus' be like, "yo shiznit, i love yo firm so much i don't care which city im in'

[270910]

Well, congrats on snagging interviews - but personally I think it would be a bad thing to do both. Opinions on this vary, so I'll give you my reasoning, but I know others disagree.

The way I see it, you have to pick one or the other eventually. While there is an impulse to maximize opportunities, I feel that it can only work to your detriment when its two offices of the same firm. Each interview you have with a firm should be a balls-to-the-wall heartfelt sell. You want THAT firm, THAT practice area, THAT city. You want to work there for at least a dozen years. Obviously your sales pitch will necessarily be different at different firms, but there's an objective and insurmountable obstacle to your sell if you've got interviews with two different locations with a firm.

Everyone expects that we're clueless rising 2Ls, but you still do yourself much better if you look less wishy-washy about things. You can only pick one employer anyway, and I think it would show maturity and increase your odds significantly if you picked one location prior to the interview.

[Anonymous User]

Couldn't you also argue that "I want your firm, and I'll go anywhere if that's what it takes"?

[270910]

Couldn't you also argue that "I want your firm, and I'll go anywhere if that's what it takes"?

Some people have this thought. I believe it would not be helpful. The practice of law is MUCH more partner and practice area centric than firm centric. Firms have cultures and policies that are important, but offices are largely islands. Now it's true that summers at big firms often rotate through practice areas before picking where they'll work when they start as an associate, but bridging two entire offices is difficult. Skadden DC doesn't do what Skadden NYC does - and it would be a hard sell that there's something so inherently Skaddeny about Skadden that you could care less whether you were doing lit in DC or transactional work in DC. Some degree of uncertainty about your future looks good, but that starts to just make you look desperate.

Mature candidate: Most of my family currently lives in the DC Metro area, so I would like to wind up working here long term after law school. I am also interested in regulatory work and litigation, as you can tell from my impressive resume of regulatory and litigationy things. You have strong groups in both practice areas, and I would love to have the opportunity to be exposed to both of them.

Now, you can likely say the exact same thing to a DIFFERENT FIRM in a different city if you've built up a credible story. But you can't really talk out of both sides of your mouth to one firm.

Do you see how much harder that sell gets if you can only focus on the firm? That's why I think it's risky.

[spanktheduck]

From talking to a hiring partner. You need to choose. Being wishy-wash will get you dinged.

[doyleoil]

I agree with disco and spank wholeheartedly. Though I'm not particularly fond of having to phrase it that way.

[rayiner]

Okay, y'all have me convinced. Dropped.

[dresden doll]

This thread inadvertently reminded me that I don't yet know whether our bidding list is due on the 30th or August 6th.

Anyhow, Ray, I think one of the issues might also be that different offices handle different types of work. When I attended Jenner and Block reception last week, one of the attorneys explained to me that Chicago office focused on litigation whereas NYC branch tended to handle transactional work.

[rayiner]

This thread inadvertently reminded me that I don't yet know whether our bidding list is due on the 30th or August 6th.

Anyhow, Ray, I think one of the issues might also be that different offices handle different types of work. When I attended Jenner and Block reception last week, one of the attorneys explained to me that Chicago office focused on litigation whereas NYC branch tended to handle transactional work.

Good point.

[dresden doll]

This thread inadvertently reminded me that I don't yet know whether our bidding list is due on the 30th or August 6th.

Anyhow, Ray, I think one of the issues might also be that different offices handle different types of work. When I attended Jenner and Block reception last week, one of the attorneys explained to me that Chicago office focused on litigation whereas NYC branch tended to handle transactional work.

Good point.

Wow, first semi-useful post I've made on TLS all week, if not longer.

Happy to help, buddy.

[dood]

...

[270910]

Even if no multiple interviews - OK to bid multiple offices, right? I'm assuming the HR person is going to see I have interest in SF or LA and just assign me 1 interview with one office or the other.

Why would you let HR make that choice?

It depends on your system, and it can be nuanced - but I never see the advantage to bidding on more than one office of a firm. Yes, you, me, and every other law student have broad interests. But the jobs will go to those who know what they want and can articulate it best.

[NYAssociate]

.

[jchoggan]

I'm going to take a contrary viewpoint here, mostly because I think there are valid reasons for wanting to work in two offices of the same firm. I think going more than two is dangerous. But two is just fine. There's no problem with stating a mature rationale for wanting both offices. Say you're interested in IP lit and transactional stuff and were interviewing at Ropes. You could say that the IP lit interest made you apply to NY, but the transactional interest pulls you toward Boston. If anything, you'll seem more mature than the typical candidate, since you'll have done research on the specific office's strengths in that firm and expressed genuine interest in them.

Wanting to be in more than one city is not "unfocused." You're probably in your early-to-mid twenties. You're not even supposed to be making $160,000. The notion that you are in a position to make a permanent life choice in terms of geography is dumb, and I don't think any firm would fault you for expressing an interest in more than one city.

When I was interviewing for firms, I openly confessed to my TX ones that I was interviewing for firms in NYC. My "rationale" was that I really wanted Texas, but that not enough TX firms came to my EIW, and it would have been stupid to throw away bids and interviews, so I had to choose an additional market. Everyone bought it. It was fine.

I can definitely see both sides of the coin on this one. Very useful thread so far.

You mention TX firms... I know of a few that pride themselves on coordinating work in teams across all offices in the state and creating a "one firm" cohesive unit. If this is the case, would the argument that "i love your firm and would be thrilled to be a part of it in cities A, B, or C" hold more water?

[Renzo]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't hire someone who came in to an interview and told me they couldn't make up their minds where they wan to live for the foreseeable future. It doesn't exactly convey leadership and confidence.

[valley splitter]

What about certain locales like the Bay Area? For example, some firms have offices in Palo Alto and San Francisco (about 30 minutes apart) and they both do essentially the same things. Other places I can think of similar to this are in Southern California where some firms have offices in Los Angeles, Orange County, and Century City as well as San Diego farther south. Would it be looked down upon to apply to both Bay Area offices?

[Anonymous User]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't hire someone who came in to an interview and told me they couldn't make up their minds where they wan to live for the foreseeable future. It doesn't exactly convey leadership and confidence.

What do you do if you want to practice IP and only 10 firms at your OCI do it in the city you're applying in/want to be? Only apply to those 10 places and see what happens? That sounds like a terrible idea.

As an anecdote, I applied in multiple markets (sometimes the same firm in multiple markets) and had no issues. Offers/CBs in many/all of the markets I applied to. FWIW, I was quite honest with my interviewers as well.

[Renzo]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't hire someone who came in to an interview and told me they couldn't make up their minds where they wan to live for the foreseeable future. It doesn't exactly convey leadership and confidence.

What do you do if you want to practice IP and only 10 firms at your OCI do it in the city you're applying in/want to be? Only apply to those 10 places and see what happens? That sounds like a terrible idea.

As an anecdote, I applied in multiple markets (sometimes the same firm in multiple markets) and had no issues. Offers/CBs in many/all of the markets I applied to. FWIW, I was quite honest with my interviewers as well.

I think that "I really want to do _______ work, and would be willing to relocate to do it." isn't the same as "I need a job so bad I'll work anywhere."

[enygma]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't hire someone who came in to an interview and told me they couldn't make up their minds where they wan to live for the foreseeable future. It doesn't exactly convey leadership and confidence.

well, if you frame it that way, then maybe not. but only a moron would frame it that way in the interview. you just say that you really could see yourself making a career in either city and that firm in particular is appealing in both cities for x, y, z reasons.

[Renzo]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't hire someone who came in to an interview and told me they couldn't make up their minds where they wan to live for the foreseeable future. It doesn't exactly convey leadership and confidence.

well, if you frame it that way, then maybe not. but only a moron would frame it that way in the interview. you just say that you really could see yourself making a career in either city and that firm in particular is appealing in both cities for x, y, z reasons.

I think the problem is that coming up with x, y, and z that don't sound silly is difficult. Many firms don't do the same work in different offices, and they may not serve the same sectors, clients, etc.

It might not be a problem for a boutique or specialty firm; for example if all you want is to do labor or employment law, it would make sense to interview with several offices of Jackson Lewis. But, as an example, what compelling reason would you give for applying to the DC and NYC offices of Arnold & Porter? The cities couldn't be more different, the practices couldn't be more different, and the clients are largely different.

[Anonymous User]

What about two offices of the same firm in the different countries/trying to split the summer? anyone have any experience w that?

[Renzo]

What about two offices of the same firm in the different countries/trying to split the summer? anyone have any experience w that?

Different countries is different. Most firms don't expect you to spend your career abroad, but at the same time, they often have very specific criteria for foreign offices. Some firms will allow you to summer at a big domestic office, but spend a few weeks of at a foreign office (pretty sure Linklaters lets people go to London, for example).

[NYAssociate]

.

[Renzo]

ut, as an example, what compelling reason would you give for applying to the DC and NYC offices of Arnold & Porter? The cities couldn't be more different, the practices couldn't be more different, and the clients are largely different.

You're kidding, right? Suppose A&P is really strong in environmental work in DC, and really strong in corporate work in NYC. Suppose you have a strong interest in both. Then, you'd have a good reason for wanting to work in either office...

It's really not that hard. People have diverse interests these days, you know? I hope law school didn't dull you that much.

I would find that a hard sell, personally. You really think your average about-to-be 2L can sell the line that they either want to do enviro work in DC or corporate work in NYC, and that either and both of those are exactly the kind of opportunity they're looking for?

I think "pick your story and stick with it" is better advice.