How fatal is it to focus on one market alone? Forum

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:54 pm

disco_barred wrote:No time to read thread now, but chiming in with my usual "all I have heard is that the more market focused a candidate was, the better they did at OCI" - i.e. it is the opposite of fatal to focus on one market.
depends on which market you focus on. Maybe for people who focused on NYC, but for those who focused on other markets last year, it was rougher.

re: ties in Northern California -- San Francisco is a beautiful city, but there are certain sacrifices people make from other parts of the country to live there. First it has very high CoL, but if someone's family is somewhere in the Midwest or East Coast, it's a minimum plane ride to head out and visit them. My understanding is that there is a particular worry here that new graduates will want to experience living out here for a couple years and then leave. That issue isn't so severe for NYC firms that are massively leveraged and used to high rates of associate turnover, which isn't the case in the Bay Area market.

As for the perceived "unfairness" of the need for local connections... if someone goes through the effort of doing a 1L internship in the Bay Area, coupled with some other plausible story, that seems generally enough for this market (at least to the people I talked to), and I believe that is the case for Texas as well. You should have some sense of what you're getting into, and that's what firms are really looking for. (Also, spending your 1L internship in a remote market can be essential for learning about it and developing connections, even if you're doing PI or government.)

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by 270910 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:55 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:This thread so far leads me to believe that such a course of action would be sacrilegious. Am I nuts for not wanting New York at all?
Didn't you grow up/attended UG in NorCal? I don't see why the thread would let you to believe that NYC = credited course of action.
I dunno I just feel like everyone wants or is planning on bidding on NYC.

Edit: grammar, i think
Even if they are, NYC biglaw hires like 50,000,000x the associates of any other market. NYC almost undoubtedly has the best supply/demand ratio outside of places where demand asymptotically approaches zero (I'm looking at you, middle of the country).

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by bizen boat » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:56 pm

It's not that I even want NY that badly, but there are simply more and larger firms there. Thus, theoretically a better chance for a somewhat generic candidate like myself (decent grades + transfer to CCN). If ties to NY start factoring into the equation, however, I might as well focus on Chicago, as decimated as the legal landscape there appears to be.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:57 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:This thread so far leads me to believe that such a course of action would be sacrilegious. Am I nuts for not wanting New York at all?
Didn't you grow up/attended UG in NorCal? I don't see why the thread would let you to believe that NYC = credited course of action.
I dunno I just feel like everyone wants or is planning on bidding on NYC.

Edit: grammar, i think
I bid sparingly on NYC and only because I ran out of offices worth bidding on.

Although, ITE it's important to be selfish.

yes, you're making a terrible decision not bidding exclusively on NYC. Don't even bother bidding on a single California office :twisted:

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by prezidentv8 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:04 pm

So just to thread hijack for a second here - if anyone can speak to this - beyond my amateurish research over the summer, I still know almost nothing about firm hiring, although I do know a teeny bit about government org.'s. I'm at a T14, with very significant Bay Area ties, and fairly above median grades (not the top of class or anything approaching elite, but solidly above median) - what caliber of employers should I be looking at in the Bay Area or California as a whole? I guess my thinking at the moment is that I'm trying to find "target," "reach," and "safety" employers, to put it in TLS admissions verbiage. Oh, also I don't have a science/tech background.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by prezidentv8 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:This thread so far leads me to believe that such a course of action would be sacrilegious. Am I nuts for not wanting New York at all?
Didn't you grow up/attended UG in NorCal? I don't see why the thread would let you to believe that NYC = credited course of action.
I dunno I just feel like everyone wants or is planning on bidding on NYC.

Edit: grammar, i think
I bid sparingly on NYC and only because I ran out of offices worth bidding on.

Although, ITE it's important to be selfish.

yes, you're making a terrible decision not bidding exclusively on NYC. Don't even bother bidding on a single California office :twisted:
Well played haha

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by dresden doll » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:11 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:I dunno I just feel like everyone wants or is planning on bidding on NYC.

Edit: grammar, i think
Other people didn't grow up in NorCal like you did. Also, I highly doubt I'm the only NYC lover out there.

I'm comforted to hear that people who focused on one market tended to do better. I pretty much have no incentive to spread myself thin, unless it's for whatever reason reasonable to do so.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by crazypants » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:20 pm

Corsair focused on one market alone.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by 270910 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:26 pm

crazypants wrote:Corsair focused on one market alone.
I know people who focused on one market who struck out too. There were other factors, not the least of which being the sudden and acute collapse of the united states banking industry and economy during interview season. Bad example.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by DerrickRose » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:09 pm

I have a similar question in a different format.

I want to be in Chicago, I am Chicagoland born and bred, and I go to the Chicago-yest of all T1 schools. Yet, given my borderline (euphemism of the day) candidacy for getting a job from OCI, I am tempted to bid for some of the less mammoth firms in places like Milwaukee and St. Louis.

What would you do?

*Starts, for the first time ever, being worried about whether employers read TLS*

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by prezidentv8 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:13 pm

DerrickRose wrote:I have a similar question in a different format.

I want to be in Chicago, I am Chicagoland born and bred, and I go to the Chicago-yest of all T1 schools. Yet, given my borderline (euphemism of the day) candidacy for getting a job from OCI, I am tempted to bid for some of the less mammoth firms in places like Milwaukee and St. Louis.

What would you do?

*Starts, for the first time ever, being worried about whether employers read TLS*
Dude, you're Derrick Rose, you're a Chicago hero!

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by pehaigllleises » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:15 pm

I was on the phone with the master wizard at OCS both early in Winter Quarter and the other day and he did nothing to dissuade me, either time, from only bidding on Chicago firms. And New York is bigger than Chicago. You can also send your resume and transcript to New York firms that are not coming to OCI.

So long as your grades aren't total crap, I don't see a problem with going deeper in one city rather than sprinkling multiple cities.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by Cosmo Kramer » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:22 pm

disco_barred wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:This thread so far leads me to believe that such a course of action would be sacrilegious. Am I nuts for not wanting New York at all?
Didn't you grow up/attended UG in NorCal? I don't see why the thread would let you to believe that NYC = credited course of action.
I dunno I just feel like everyone wants or is planning on bidding on NYC.

Edit: grammar, i think
Even if they are, NYC biglaw hires like 50,000,000x the associates of any other market. NYC almost undoubtedly has the best supply/demand ratio outside of places where demand asymptotically approaches zero (I'm looking at you, middle of the country).
Totally irrelevant, but I just wanted to commend you on using asymptote as an adverb. Never seen it before, but I'm definitely a fan. Carry on, all.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by Lawrence » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:25 pm

I've got some anecdotal evidence about they NYC legal market, but I think it's worth posting. I spoke with the head of legal recruiting at one of the V5 firms in New York, and they seemed unconcerned about ties to New York. They said they had people from all over the country and viewed it as a positive. My impression of the New York market is this kind of feeling was much more prevalent because there isn't a bigger city they are worried about you leaving for. I'm sure every firm is not the same in this regard though.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by NewHere » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:01 pm

I've read most responses but not every single one (studying for the bar), so apologies if this is repetitive. Two things:

1. If you can, try to focus on one, or at the most two, market(s). The people who had the most trouble in OCI in my class were the ones who tried to cover multiple cities. Interviewers routinely ask where else you are interviewing, and what they don't want to hear is that you are applying all over the place. Think about it now, make a decision, and be confident about it.

An exception may apply if your preferred location is a city with few employers. If your schools gives you, say, 20 bids, and there are only 10 employers in your target city, by all means do use the other 10 bids on another location.

2. "Ties" are irrelevant in NY.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by HAMBONE » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:31 am

DerrickRose wrote:I have a similar question in a different format.

I want to be in Chicago, I am Chicagoland born and bred, and I go to the Chicago-yest of all T1 schools. Yet, given my borderline (euphemism of the day) candidacy for getting a job from OCI, I am tempted to bid for some of the less mammoth firms in places like Milwaukee and St. Louis.

What would you do?

*Starts, for the first time ever, being worried about whether employers read TLS*
I am not sure about Milwaukee but St. Louis should be ruled out if you do not have significant ties to the place. The first question anyone asks when they see a St. Louis address is which high school you attended. The employers also seem to particularly distrust people from chicago. I interviewed with a lot of st. louis firms last year and without an exception spent 5 minutes at every interview trying to convince people that I really did want to stay in St. Louis after graduation. All this when I go to WUSTL

Hopefully Milwaukee isn't that bad.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by Renzo » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:53 am

Dres, just do it. NYC is orders of magnitude bigger than other legal markets. Plus, you're only going to get a certain number of interviews; why trade an interview in a city you do want (NYC) for one that you don't want (CHI)?

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by 270910 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:13 am

Renzo wrote:Dres, just do it. NYC is orders of magnitude bigger than other legal markets. Plus, you're only going to get a certain number of interviews; why trade an interview in a city you do want (NYC) for one that you don't want (CHI)?
+1. I've said it before but I'll say it again: Bidding exclusively on NYC is likely the best way to get a job ITE. Even if you're cream of the crop pre-summa at HYS or something, each interview you have at an NYC big law firm will go farther because the larger summer classes means you don't have to ever be The One at the interview, just one of Seventy The Ones or whatever the firm is going to hire.
Last edited by 270910 on Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by dresden doll » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:35 am

Many thanks, everyone. I had somehow gotten the idea that bidding on one market - i.e. putting all eggs in one basket - was a problematic bidding strategy, particularly w/r/t to NYC which has been frequently mentioned as having been hit particularly hard.

Thanks for correcting me. And, Renzo, you're totally right in re: bidding. I really wouldn't want to trade an interview in a city I want for an interview in a city I don't like.

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Re: How fatal is it to focus on one market alone?

Post by 270910 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:43 am

:lol: the downturn is so bad that people talk about how ever city was hit "especially hard." It's pretty amusing.

NYC was bad, but a large reason for the perception of it being bad was a combination of two factors. One, some of the very recent growth into the financial sector legal market (I'm looking at you, NYC office of Latham) just completely exploded. The other is that with so many firms and so many large firms, there were more news stories about deferrals and no offers and etc. A mid-market firm with 3 summers only giving 1 offer just isn't a news story and any given person isn't as likely to hear about it, you know? But especially now with things getting back together, NYC is looking better. And for student at top schools, NYC is easier to crack because even recession-strength NYC is hell of larger than other markets.

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