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when sending out cover letters/resumes to law firms, does one use a large manila envelope, or just a regular business-sized one? anonymous because i have a feeling i should already know this

You definitely want to make yourself stand out. Mailing your resume in a large manila envelope (ideally marked "DO NOT BEND") sends a clear signal that you intend to be taken seriously, despite your obvious lack of experience and over-inflated sense of self-importance.

Never saw Legally Blonde?

...

dood wrote:Hey broski, for your direct write campaign (that is what I assume you are referring to), make sure to check firm's websites - a lot tell you to email a certain recruiter and some even have online application forms where you apply by uploading your resume, cover letter, etc.

During my 1L job search I used large white envelopes to mail judges. I believe this is the exact product I bought: http://www.staples.com/Southworth-Fine- ... rea=SEARCH

Though I believe the majority of my peers used either the cheaper manila or small white ones. I'm kind of OCD and would rather spend the extra $$. Note that the real cost is in postage for a big envelope versus a small one. Can get expensive if you mail 200 apps from DC to CA at $1.22 each (this is exactly what I did).

WOW. Just... just wow.

Bosque wrote:

dood wrote:Hey broski, for your direct write campaign (that is what I assume you are referring to), make sure to check firm's websites - a lot tell you to email a certain recruiter and some even have online application forms where you apply by uploading your resume, cover letter, etc.

During my 1L job search I used large white envelopes to mail judges. I believe this is the exact product I bought: http://www.staples.com/Southworth-Fine- ... rea=SEARCH

Though I believe the majority of my peers used either the cheaper manila or small white ones. I'm kind of OCD and would rather spend the extra $$. Note that the real cost is in postage for a big envelope versus a small one. Can get expensive if you mail 200 apps from DC to CA at $1.22 each (this is exactly what I did).

WOW. Just... just wow.

...unless it worked. In which case: It's all about the envelope.

Here is my unsolicited advice...

A secretary or mail room clerk will most likely open the letter. I don't open any of my own mail, because it first needs to be indexed and recorded as to when it came in. A great deal of litigation involves dates. It's imperative that the date something is received is recorded, along with the date the paper is dated. For instance, a few weeks ago I received an Order on June 12. The Order was dated June 2 and said something had to be done by June 22! Clearly, I have an equitable argument that we didn't receive the Order until the 12th and I should have until July 2 to get the thing in. But it's not worth messing around with so we just went pedal to the metal and churned out the document and filed it timely. However, if we needed more time to put the thing together, it would be persuasive to the judge that we didn't get the Order until 10 days after it was issued. That's why most lawyers don't see the envelopes -- the secretary or mail clerk will log the thing first.

The person who makes the decision to hire you will therefore most likely never see the envelope. It looks a little better not bent, but rest assured that the content is way more important than whether or not it was bent.

I would recommend sending a hard copy as opposed to an email, or perhaps both. A fax will also do. It's much easier for a lawyer to delete an email than throw away a letter. We lawyers are so habituated to saving and indexing every single letter that we rarely throw them away. Someone will most likely look at your resume if you mail it, because our secretary won't have any idea what it is or whether or not it's important. Plus there is a good chance we'll put it on our desk and it will sit there for two months. Every day I'll look at it and then say "Hmmm, I wonder if we do need someone..." until we finally just toss it.

Just a thought. However, if the firm isn't hiring, it doesn't matter if you have a courier hand deliver it and sing a song about your qualifications. That would be cool, though.

Anonymous Loser wrote:You definitely want to make yourself stand out. Mailing your resume in a large manila envelope (ideally marked "DO NOT BEND") sends a clear signal that you intend to be taken seriously, despite your obvious lack of experience and over-inflated sense of self-importance.

i have no input on this topic but i really like your username.

AJRESQ wrote: Someone will most likely look at your resume if you mail it, because our secretary won't have any idea what it is or whether or not it's important. .

Is your secretary developmentally challenged? He doesn't know what a cover letter/resume mailing is? Really?

Cleareyes wrote:

AJRESQ wrote: Someone will most likely look at your resume if you mail it, because our secretary won't have any idea what it is or whether or not it's important. .

Is your secretary developmentally challenged? He doesn't know what a cover letter/resume mailing is? Really?

In defense of the secretary, I am pretty sure AJRESQ misspoke. More that the secretary would not make a judgment call as to whether or not it was important.

Cleareyes wrote:Never saw Legally Blonde?

Cleareyes, I see you've been stealing my stationery again.

OperaSoprano wrote:

Cleareyes wrote:Never saw Legally Blonde?

Cleareyes, I see you've been stealing my stationery again.

do you use perfumed paper, too?

Cleareyes wrote:

AJRESQ wrote: Someone will most likely look at your resume if you mail it, because our secretary won't have any idea what it is or whether or not it's important. .

Is your secretary developmentally challenged? He doesn't know what a cover letter/resume mailing is? Really?

They're not going to say "You got a resume. I didn't think you would want to read it, so I threw it out. You're welcome."

Instead, they're going to mark the date it came in and stick it in my box as they have no idea whether or not we are hiring or considering a new attorney, or whether I am just going to throw it away. That's not their decision.

Bosque wrote:

Cleareyes wrote:

AJRESQ wrote: Someone will most likely look at your resume if you mail it, because our secretary won't have any idea what it is or whether or not it's important. .

Is your secretary developmentally challenged? He doesn't know what a cover letter/resume mailing is? Really?

In defense of the secretary, I am pretty sure AJRESQ misspoke. More that the secretary would not make a judgment call as to whether or not it was important.

Yes, that is what I meant.

Because if the secretary throws out something important it would be a huge problem. That's why secretaries don't throw away ANYTHING. Discarding stuff is the decision of the lawyer -- even stuff that seems "unimportant."

The point I'm making is that if you mail it, there is a very good chance the lawyer you're sending it to is going to read it, but they're most likely not going to see the envelope.

jayn3 wrote:

OperaSoprano wrote:

Cleareyes wrote:Never saw Legally Blonde?

Cleareyes, I see you've been stealing my stationery again.

do you use perfumed paper, too?

All my employment nabbing secrets are out.

AJRESQ wrote:

Cleareyes wrote:

AJRESQ wrote: Someone will most likely look at your resume if you mail it, because our secretary won't have any idea what it is or whether or not it's important. .

Is your secretary developmentally challenged? He doesn't know what a cover letter/resume mailing is? Really?

They're not going to say "You got a resume. I didn't think you would want to read it, so I threw it out. You're welcome."

Instead, they're going to mark the date it came in and stick it in my box as they have no idea whether or not we are hiring or considering a new attorney, or whether I am just going to throw it away. That's not their decision.

That's fine. But that's very different from "Huh? What are these strange sheets of dried wood pulp with markings on them? It appears that one is indicating interest at working in this very office, and the other is a list of some person's educational and work credentials. This is quite bizarre. I have no idea what to make of these strange objects. I am frightened and confused. Oh lord, I hope the lawyers can determine what I have received. Is it a missive from another planet? A sign from god? Who can say? WHO CAN SAY?"

OperaSoprano wrote: All my employment nabbing secrets are out.

They didn't mention your "If you grant me an interview I will help you, your spouse or significant other, and any children either of you may have over the age of 13, pick out at least 3 head turning ensembles for a total cost per person of less than $200. If you receive fewer than 2 compliments every 5 hours of wearing these ensembles in public I will resign in shame. Or you could hire someone else with the same grades and keep wearing that navy suit from the Men's Wearhouse/Frumpy skirt and cardigan combo from Daffy's."

Cleareyes wrote:

AJRESQ wrote:

Cleareyes wrote:

AJRESQ wrote: Someone will most likely look at your resume if you mail it, because our secretary won't have any idea what it is or whether or not it's important. .

Is your secretary developmentally challenged? He doesn't know what a cover letter/resume mailing is? Really?

They're not going to say "You got a resume. I didn't think you would want to read it, so I threw it out. You're welcome."

Instead, they're going to mark the date it came in and stick it in my box as they have no idea whether or not we are hiring or considering a new attorney, or whether I am just going to throw it away. That's not their decision.

That's fine. But that's very different from "Huh? What are these strange sheets of dried wood pulp with markings on them? It appears that one is indicating interest at working in this very office, and the other is a list of some person's educational and work credentials. This is quite bizarre. I have no idea what to make of these strange objects. I am frightened and confused. Oh lord, I hope the lawyers can determine what I have received. Is it a missive from another planet? A sign from god? Who can say? WHO CAN SAY?"

LOL! A +1 to you, good sir.

Though in all fairness, I could write a book about the dumb stuff I've seen legal secretaries do (not because they are dumb, but because it's a job and some don't care, or attorneys just want them to literally do whatever they say). I once dictated a letter that was like "Write a letter to this other lawyer asking him to provide the documents by such and such date. Tell him to stop dicking around with or I'll file my motion to compel." (because I like to just give people a general concept and let them do it their way, because that is what I prefer) So I get back a letter in my box to sign that reads "Dear Such and Such: Kindly provide me with the documents no later that such and such a date. Please stop dicking around with me or I will file a motion to compel".

Needless to say, it was hysterical and continues to be a running joke around the office. "Write him a 'stop dicking around' letter. Make sure 'dicking' is in there. Judges love that." I regret not saving the draft letter.

So, if we got in a resume and no one knew what it was, it wouldn't blow me off my chair or anything...

AJRESQ wrote: LOL! A +1 to you, good sir.

Though in all fairness, I could write a book about the dumb stuff I've seen legal secretaries do (not because they are dumb, but because it's a job and some don't care, or attorneys just want them to literally do whatever they say). I once dictated a letter that was like "Write a letter to this other lawyer asking him to provide the documents by such and such date. Tell him to stop dicking around with or I'll file my motion to compel." (because I like to just give people a general concept and let them do it their way, because that is what I prefer) So I get back a letter in my box to sign that reads "Dear Such and Such: Kindly provide me with the documents no later that such and such a date. Please stop dicking around with me or I will file a motion to compel".

Needless to say, it was hysterical and continues to be a running joke around the office. "Write him a 'stop dicking around' letter. Make sure 'dicking' is in there. Judges love that." I regret not saving the draft letter.

So, if we got in a resume and no one knew what it was, it wouldn't blow me off my chair or anything...

So you think the secretary is incompetent because they did exactly what you told them to do? They must just LOVE you.

Bosque wrote:

AJRESQ wrote: LOL! A +1 to you, good sir.

Though in all fairness, I could write a book about the dumb stuff I've seen legal secretaries do (not because they are dumb, but because it's a job and some don't care, or attorneys just want them to literally do whatever they say). I once dictated a letter that was like "Write a letter to this other lawyer asking him to provide the documents by such and such date. Tell him to stop dicking around with or I'll file my motion to compel." (because I like to just give people a general concept and let them do it their way, because that is what I prefer) So I get back a letter in my box to sign that reads "Dear Such and Such: Kindly provide me with the documents no later that such and such a date. Please stop dicking around with me or I will file a motion to compel".

Needless to say, it was hysterical and continues to be a running joke around the office. "Write him a 'stop dicking around' letter. Make sure 'dicking' is in there. Judges love that." I regret not saving the draft letter.

So, if we got in a resume and no one knew what it was, it wouldn't blow me off my chair or anything...

So you think the secretary is incompetent because they did exactly what you told them to do? They must just LOVE you.

I gave her a general gist of "this is what I want" and s/he gave me the literal. However, I prefer to give people general ideas of what I want and let them use their own skill and creativity to produce the final product. I don't like to tell people exactly what to do and how to do it, because I want them to be able to do it their way and utilize their talents. Plus, they often have better ideas than me, and if they do it differently than I asked, there might be a good reason for it that I didn't consider.

I quickly learned that doesn't work for everyone. Some people just want very literal instruction. Part of lawyering is figuring out how to give instructions to different types of people. I don't think this secretary is stupid or anything, it was just a matter of not giving instructions the secretary wasn't used to.

You guys will learn a lot about people your first few years of practice... that is for sure.