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Rising 2L from UChicago, my GPA is a 178.35- does anyone know what that is in terms of rank?

I'm focusing mainly on Chicago firms at OCI, we haven't gotten the list yet, but does anyone have any advice on bidding for me? Also, what types of firms should I mail my resume to outside of OCI? what's a good way to find out about these types of firms? I really want a firm that pays market, are there Chicago firms that pay market but which won't be coming to OCI?

thanks in advance for any suggestions

Nalpdirectory.com

This is such a broad question, not to be an ass but you have to do the research for yourself, it sounds like you are asking someone to make you a bid list and a mail out list and there is no way someone can do that for you 1) it is a SH*T TON of work, 2) we don't know your OCI firms, 3) the list has to be unique to you and the investigation helps you in interviews etc.

Here are some resources in addition to NALP and your career center website/humans:

Leopard List- leopardsolutions.com
Lawdragon.com
LawShucks Layoff Tracker: lawshucks.com/layoff-tracker/
Chambers Associate
Leading Lawyers of America
AMLaw Surveys, American Lawyer, Chicago Lawyer
Vault
Martindale Hubbell
Abovethelaw.com
lawbulletin.com
national law journal
infirmation

I have been doing research on NALP, ATL, etc., and I will also be sure to check out the other websites you listed. But I guess I was more looking for advice on what prestige or selectivity level of firm to bid on, and I'm also wondering whether, since I want to focus on Chicago, there are at least some firms that pay market but won't be present at OCI- I've heard that mid law type firms don't have summer programs anyway, is this true?

Anonymous User wrote:I have been doing research on NALP, ATL, etc., and I will also be sure to check out the other websites you listed. But I guess I was more looking for advice on what prestige or selectivity level of firm to bid on, and I'm also wondering whether, since I want to focus on Chicago, there are at least some firms that pay market but won't be present at OCI- I've heard that mid law type firms don't have summer programs anyway, is this true?

can't they afford career advisors down there? i think it's going to be really difficult for us to figure out what your grades mean if someone who goes there (you) can't

Anonymous User wrote: I've heard that mid law type firms don't have summer programs anyway, is this true?

Not at all. They not only have summer programs, but also hire out of their 2L summer class just like large firms. However, "midlaw" is a relatively small number of firms in Chicago nowadays (most firms there are large or small), and I really have no idea how a person can go about one of these really small number of summer spots (they often take something like 1-2 summer associates). I assume a lot/all of those are taken up via networking and not through mass mailings.

We don't have a list of firms that are coming to OCI at UChicago yet, do we? I thought that would be released at the end of next week. How can you make a list without that yet?

A 178.35?

mallard wrote:A 178.35?

the whole 155-186 thingy encourages loads of hair-splitting - i've even seen thousandths

eta: i'm only moderately ashamed to admit i know my thousandth

Mine ends in a neat .5, but I wouldn't give up my hundredth or thousandth either if I had one.

I'd guess that 178.35 is somewhere between top 30% and 40%. Probably closer to 30 than 40. It's just a personal guess, but we're not allowed to officially guess at our ranks anyway.

pehaigllleises wrote:Mine ends in a neat .5, but I wouldn't give up my hundredth or thousandth either if I had one.

I'd guess that 178.35 is somewhere between top 30% and 40%. Probably closer to 30 than 40. It's just a personal guess, but we're not allowed to officially guess at our ranks anyway.

yeah this is probably right - but it doesn't matter that much - from what i've heard most firms will have a round cut-off anyway (so, some firms are 178+, some 179+, etc.)

so for oci your round number, not your class rank, is what matters

the hair-splitting only really matters for some of the cutoffs that are rank-dependent (lr grade-on, kirkland scholar, etc.)

I know we don't get the list til next week, but I guess I just wanted to start doing some research early.

Is it worth bidding on firms like Mayer, Winston, or Sidley in Chicago, or are they too much of a stretch? What about Jenner or Ropes & Gray?

oh and I'm interested in doing litigation (I think, based on what I've done so far this summer).

Anonymous User wrote:I know we don't get the list til next week, but I guess I just wanted to start doing some research early.

Is it worth bidding on firms like Mayer, Winston, or Sidley in Chicago, or are they too much of a stretch? What about Jenner or Ropes & Gray?

Assuming that your GPA puts you at the 35% mark, I'd say that Mayer and Sidley are probably not worth a bid, while the rest are but Jenner and Ropes & Gray are substantial reaches.

rayiner wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I know we don't get the list til next week, but I guess I just wanted to start doing some research early.

Is it worth bidding on firms like Mayer, Winston, or Sidley in Chicago, or are they too much of a stretch? What about Jenner or Ropes & Gray?

Assuming that your GPA puts you at the 35% mark, I'd say that Mayer and Sidley are probably not worth a bid, while the rest are but Jenner and Ropes & Gray are substantial reaches.

this sounds a little pessimistic

Anonymous User wrote:

rayiner wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I know we don't get the list til next week, but I guess I just wanted to start doing some research early.

Is it worth bidding on firms like Mayer, Winston, or Sidley in Chicago, or are they too much of a stretch? What about Jenner or Ropes & Gray?

Assuming that your GPA puts you at the 35% mark, I'd say that Mayer and Sidley are probably not worth a bid, while the rest are but Jenner and Ropes & Gray are substantial reaches.

this sounds a little pessimistic

OP here, can anyone else confirm what rayiner said?

bump

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

rayiner wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I know we don't get the list til next week, but I guess I just wanted to start doing some research early.

Is it worth bidding on firms like Mayer, Winston, or Sidley in Chicago, or are they too much of a stretch? What about Jenner or Ropes & Gray?

Assuming that your GPA puts you at the 35% mark, I'd say that Mayer and Sidley are probably not worth a bid, while the rest are but Jenner and Ropes & Gray are substantial reaches.

this sounds a little pessimistic

OP here, can anyone else confirm what rayiner said?

I don't think Rayiner is wrong... the economy is still not great and firms are able to have their pick of the top and leave the rest behind. Jenner maybe not as much but Ropes in Chicago is def a stretch...the Chicago office only has 20-some people.

Also, I would check with your career office OP, not that I know this but I heard that median was 177, which makes me think you're closer to 40% than 30%? UC is so quirky though, your CSO will have a MUCH better idea than you or anyone on this board probably.

animalcrkrs wrote: but I heard that median was 177, which makes me think you're closer to 40% than 30%?

#1: you need to know more than just the median to start estimating rank
#2: stop estimating rank until you know more than just the median
#3: did nobody pay attention to my post above - it's not the rank, it's the number (beyond that, other factors will kick in)
#4: HERE is the info you would like to see to even BEGIN to estimate 1L rank (even though doing so is kinda pointless):

(The following are typical at-graduation numbers, NOT recommendations about how the curve should look in large classes)

Median: 177
Top 19% ("honors"): 179
Top ~4% ("high honors"): 180.5
Top student, basically ("highest honors"...not awarded every year): 182

Also, I think Ray is essentially right, though I would probably guess your chances at Winston/Jenner are greater than your chances at Mayer/Sidley (which are probably pretty low, unfortunately)

Jenner Chicago is not that selective (Jenner DC is another story)

doyleoil wrote:

animalcrkrs wrote: but I heard that median was 177, which makes me think you're closer to 40% than 30%?

#1: you need to know more than just the median to start estimating rank
#2: stop estimating rank until you know more than just the median
#3: did nobody pay attention to my post above - it's not the rank, it's the number (beyond that, other factors will kick in)
#4: HERE is the info you would like to see to even BEGIN to estimate 1L rank (even though doing so is kinda pointless):

(The following are typical at-graduation numbers, NOT recommendations about how the curve should look in large classes)

Median: 177
Top 19% ("honors"): 179
Top ~4% ("high honors"): 180.5
Top student, basically ("highest honors"...not awarded every year): 182

Also, I think Ray is essentially right, though I would probably guess your chances at Winston/Jenner are greater than your chances at Mayer/Sidley (which are probably pretty low, unfortunately)

Jenner Chicago is not that selective (Jenner DC is another story)

I have no idea where OP's GPA stands. I'm just going by the 30-40% someone else threw out.

Re: pessimism, Mayer and Sidley had tiny summer classes last year. Their GPA-targets went way up to compensate.

rayiner wrote: I have no idea where OP's GPA stands. I'm just going by the 30-40% someone else threw out.

Re: pessimism, Mayer and Sidley had tiny summer classes last year. Their GPA-targets went way up to compensate.

yeah Mayer was especially tiny and definitely got more selective - i haven't seen any good speculation on whether Mayer and Sidley need somewhat bigger classes next summer or not - my guess is no (especially since Sidley still has deferreds, if i'm not mistaken)

Anyone when/if we get a list showing the GPAs of students who got callbacks at various firms?

thanks for all the good insight, guys. i think i will probably bid on Mayer (just for the heck of it), but not on Sidley.
any insight on these firms (i've looked them up on vault, nalp, etc. but just in case you have some insider knowledge): Katten Muchin, Perkins Coie, Baker McKenzie, Foley & Lardner, Jones Day, McDermott Will?

Anonymous User wrote:thanks for all the good insight, guys. i think i will probably bid on Mayer (just for the heck of it), but not on Sidley.
any insight on these firms (i've looked them up on vault, nalp, etc. but just in case you have some insider knowledge): Katten Muchin, Perkins Coie, Baker McKenzie, Foley & Lardner, Jones Day, McDermott Will?

These should all be solid targets (ranging from safeish to reachish but targets nonetheless). Some of them had pretty small summer classes last year, though. I get the impression Foley isn't doing that great. I'm curious about MWE, the only thing I know is that the bastards didn't give me a preselect at PLIP.

Anonymous User wrote:thanks for all the good insight, guys. i think i will probably bid on Mayer (just for the heck of it), but not on Sidley.
any insight on these firms (i've looked them up on vault, nalp, etc. but just in case you have some insider knowledge): Katten Muchin, Perkins Coie, Baker McKenzie, Foley & Lardner, Jones Day, McDermott Will?

I think this is probably smart. It's not like your GPA couldn't land Mayer OR Sidley in the past. And if you have some good work experience or nail a really good interview, you could get lucky with them.

I don't have insider info on the firms you listed. What you're looking for is how big their offices are and how big their summer classes might be. The bigger the better, obviously (as far as just landing a callback/offer goes).

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone when/if we get a list showing the GPAs of students who got callbacks at various firms?

The "Who Worked Where" and the list of firms at OCI is supposed to be available a week from today. That should help. I've heard the GPA data OCS has provided in the past isn't that helpful (no median, only minimum and maximum GPA that got a callback). I don't know if we're going to get that online or not. I would imagine Career Services will give it to you if you ask.